QOTD #28: Favorite Forgotten Moments

Today’s Question:
What is your favorite moment
in wrestling history (that nobody ever remembers)?
I’m talking about topics that are never mentioned on DVDs,
rarely brought up by other people on the Internet, but really stuck out to you
as a fantastic match or segment.
We’ll dive into that tomorrow.

Yesterday I asked for you to come up with WWE Network
improvements. With the Q2 report not far away, WWE is expected to remain well
below early projections. So your ideas are both designed to maintain the
current base (which they cannot afford to lose) as well as attract new viewers.
Ryan Yoder: Kind of a small detail, and it may be
different on devices that are not PS3s, but the option to sort PPVs
chronologically would be helpful for people who would like to watch the PPVs in
order but do not know the order.
As a PS3 user, I agree. I have a fairly good memory for stuff
that happened 10 years ago, but they juggle around their lineup so often now
that Battleground might have been a September Pay-Per-View previously, unless
that was Night of Champions, etc etc. Having the lineup in order to be able to
relive the action would be wonderful.
TheGrailspiral: The network, like hbo, needs a legitimate
new idea/concept to become relevant to a larger audience. We are the core and
love the library and such. HBO doesn’t rely on its movie database, it features
original new programming. Wwe needs this. Court Bauer said they need to think
outside the box, like broadcast house shows or have a daily news show based on
the old live wire show. SOMETHING
They’re obviously trying with their programming such as
Legends House, but it’s nowhere near enough to attract anyone outside their
current subscribers. I agree with the idea, but it needs to be fresh, because
everything they do continues to cycle through the same cast, the same writers,
and the same ideas.
Mike Mears: Here’s a small change I’d love to see: have
a DVD-like menu for each show. When you pull up a show, it gives a brief
synopsis of the event. Why not just replace that with chapters for each
match/segment?
Considering they already own the DVD’s and have the menus
pre-made for most the shows from the past 15 years, this should be a snap.
Stranger In The Alps:
A Just Added section, along with a
schedule of what’s Coming Soon, with specific dates. And STICK TO IT!
daveschlet: More content. For example All the old WCW
Saturday Night Shows, Monday Nitros, AWA stuff, UWF stuff, and so on. And then
for their live stream, they should put these shows on at the times they aired.
Also, some new content stuff. I like the LiveWire idea I read in the comments,
broadcasting house shows would be cool too, but they might see that as
discouraging people to go to those shows. Also, more legends round table
discussions or a show like TNT used to be. Just something different. But my
major gripe, would be more content. I love the clashes and PPVs and SNMEs, but
to have the shows that lead up to all these matches would also be great.
This was pretty much the #1 choice for everyone. I get the
feeling that the appetite for WCW is a lot stronger than the WWE brass even
begin to realize. There is so much content with the Turner library at their
disposal, and virtually none of it is up. I understand that their brand is
their daddy; but fans are tuning in for CONTENT, and lots of it; and one
audience they may not have full tapped into yet are the jaded older fans who
WWE lost some time ago. Offering the old NWA, AWA, and WCW footage would be a
great place to start.
jungguy: The option to watch historical RAWs/Nitros
from each week “simultaneously” … and giving you the option to
watch picture in a picture or switch back and forth between the two as if it
were real time. Come up with creative or Network centric commercials to take
the place of regular commercial breaks.
I think this would probably be a better tool for the live
stream (or in this case, during the Wars, the “streams”), but I like the
creativity here.
DJ Sprite: Also, since they want more original
programming, how about a “My Favorite…” It could be about a
wrestler’s favorite match, event, storyline, title win… Whatever that given
wrestler chooses to talk about.
I love this. Food Network fills tons of space with “The Best
Food I Ever Ate”. There’s no reason they couldn’t run a similar feature with
the Network.
Justin Henry: I’d add the ability to make playlists.
Live-tweeting (or thread commenting) is fun with a group all watching the same
thing, and it’d be fun to make a viewable marathon with some sort of theme for
group viewing purposes
BeardMoney: Better interface. It would be great if it would
save your place, like Netflix does with its streaming content, so that if you
stop watching a show at one point, it would start up there the next time you
put it on.
I agree with this. I do the majority of my watching late at
night, or in the weekend afternoons. More often than not I either pass out
during the show, or my wife wakes up from her nap and doesn’t really have any
interest in watching Superbrawl 7. By the time I come back to it I have to
figure out where I was; would obviously be better to just stop and resume.
Steven Bellah: Create your own compilations by choosing
individual matches.
Absolutely. I think a brilliant option is to either allow a
free-for-all, or maybe niche style ideas where you can “build your own
Supercard” using the same rules we do sometimes, by not repeating a title
defense or wrestlers during the card. Also “make your own Superstar DVD”, by
giving you a list of every match they’ve ever had and let you pick the matches
to create this. In terms of custom work with their content, the sky is the
limit with this.
Basscase: The best improvement should be how they
promote the service. Having all the wrestling you could possibly want is great,
but they need to give a good reason WHY. WM for cheap? Sure. But you need to
give the average viewer an education as to what it is, what you can do, and why
you need it. You need to not so much say that it’s like Netflix/Roku, but show
what it can do and let people come to their own conclusions.
Yeah I find the line about “it’s like Netflix but better!”
really weak. It’s their brand, they shouldn’t be comparing the two, but giving
out their own benefits. They have a zillion people in marketing, this should be
their top priority without question.
We also had a million calls for International expansion
throughout the thread, which is obviously a big issue for everyone. I’d love to
stop having to pay for a DNS in order to get it, so by all means, I’m on board
with an eventual launch in Canada.
My idea for the Network is definitely an in-house option
that should be made available in time with the arrival of more content. I want
in depth Superstar Profiles.
What I mean by this, is let’s suppose I clicked on John
Cena. I could see his career in-ring record, his championships held, what
gimmicks he’s performed under, etc.
From there, let’s suppose I clicked on Championships. In
looking at when they were won, I could click on the dates and watch the match
it took place on. If I clicked on his win/loss record, I could get a detailed
look at his matches either year over year, or a full track record, starting
from Match #1.
Comprehensive? Sure, but these are easily the types of
features that marketing can sell to show they are taking their product very
seriously, and the interactive experience is like nothing else you’re seeing
today.
Food for thought. Great discussion today guys. Have a great
Friday. Catch you tomorrow.

QOTD #17: Favorite Santino Moments

We had a hell of a lot of feedback yesterday, so strap
yourselves in, this is going to be a long one. But first…
Today’s Question:
Santino reportedly retired
on Sunday at a house show. What is your all time favorite Santino moment?
I can’t wait to read your responses on this one as Santino
is my favorite wrestler on the active roster, so I should be in for a treat
reliving some of his best work.
I’m going to dive into yesterday’s responses, but as always
if you want to skip to the end of this piece or start talking right away about
the Italian Stallion, then please scroll to the end or hit the comments button.

I had asked you what the most intelligence insulting, or
embarrassing thing you ever saw on a wrestling show. Over 400 answers came out,
with very little threadjacking. Even the Power Ranger only showed up once every
3 posts as opposed to 2, a 50% improvement!
Nick Piers: The Katie Vick angle, specifically the
funeral parlour bit. We’ve had our fair share of stupid things in wrestling.
You need to take the bad – or the ridiculously stupid – with the bad in order
to remain a fan. At its core, the inherent nature of pro-wrestling is
ridiculous. It’s built on many ridiculous concepts that you just accept. Me, I
love a good silly gimmick sometimes. I liked the Funkasurus, for example. Nothing
– NOTHING – though made me feel so completely ashamed to be a wrestling fan and
made me seriously consider not watching it (or at least WWE) anymore than the
Katie Vick stuff. That was during a period where WWE – or specifically Vince –
was getting more and more desperate for widespread media attention. So he was
trying to push the envelope as much as humanly possible. Katie Vick was by far
the epitome of that desperate envelope pushing.
Nick, you said it first, and you probably said it best. One
poster told the story of trying to get a friend to check out the WWE, and THAT
was the angle on the TV that he got stuck with. This was 100% a ratings ploy,
as things had plummeted fast in 2002 from drawing as high as a 5.4 in
mid-March, to hovering around 3.7 from the introduction of the Big Gold Belt in
September; which for the first time had put them on par with Smackdown. I hate
to even defend the guy, but even VINCE RUSSO never had necrophilia green-lit,
that man had no filter!
Petrock: That time R-Truth died from being exploded. He
got better, unfortunately.
Had he not been seen running off stage, AND had WWE promptly
released him, I’d be tempted to call this the greatest angle in wrestling
history. The fact this was never mentioned again when he somehow went from a
smoldering pile of ash back to rappin’ with Little Jimmy was the insulting
part.
MichaelXavier: D-Lo Brown causing Terri Runnels to
“lose” her baby. It was a disgusting angle and never went anywhere. The
fact that WWE repeated it a few years later with Snitsky and Lita was also
disgusting.
I’m going to take issue with your hate-on of my main man
Snitsky. For starters, it wasn’t his fault. Secondly, the promotion handled it
with class, such as punting babies into the audience, and holding up no babies
signs. In fact, I ran this past my wife, who glared at me and told me that I’m
not funny. So … maybe you win on this one. In all honestly Michael, I thought
the angle was hilarious when I was 22, but now that I’m older and we’ve since had
some trouble with conception, suddenly it’s not as much fun. But Snitsky and I
are still cool.
THE YETAAAAY: Mae Young giving birth to a hand is the only
thing that can rival Katie Vick.
I know several people who still talk to this day about that
being the angle that turned them off professional wrestling. I recently showed
the Mae Young with her son, The Hand from RAW 1000 to a co-worker who was
grumbling to me about it. He was speechless.
Dirty_Dave_Delaney:
Vince McMahon supposedly getting killed
off in a limo explosion. In fact the only good thing about the Benoit murders
was that it resulted in the angle being stopped!
Let’s not ever suggest there was any good thing about the
Benoit murders, shall we? Apparently we didn’t see the worst of the McMahon
angle either; reportedly they were planning a serious funeral for him on RAW.
Classy, as always.
WCW1987: Big Show having to do Steph’s dirty work
because he “needed to the money” same goes to HBK/JBL managerial
duties thing.
Not following you here. It’s outside the realm of possibility
that these guys mismanage their finances? Professional athletes? Not possible!
Witlon: Unforgiven 2002. We’re seriously supposed to
rather see Bischoff get a man’s ass shoved in his face than Steph make out with
lesbians? Come on, WWE.
Let’s be clear; she was supposed to make out with Lesbian
Rikishi.
White Thunder: The WWE’s awful attempts at humor are the
most insulting to my intelligence. I like the Bill Watts philosophy of not
having anything be funny on purpose, but if it is go with it. Snitsky is a
great example of something that was really funny that wasn’t meant to be. Cole
and JBL laughing makes me gag. I get stupider as a human being every time WWE
attempts comedy.
The constant laugh-track by the announce crew makes me want
to watch RAW on mute most nights. I can’t decide if I’d prefer they bury the
segment, or yuk it up every time Adam Rose tells his opponent not to be a
lemon. Actually, scratch that – I’d prefer they just not book bad comedy.
dwaters: Mankind vs. Rock. Halftime Heat. Point of
view shot of Rock under the forklift. This wins simply because of the huge
audience it reached.
I love this pick, because I’d long forgotten about it. Yes,
as part of the Superbowl, the WWE had a chance to put on a legitimately hot
wrestling match featuring The Rock and Mick Foley in a hardcore war. Instead,
they ventured into a campy territory, playing it safe in front of a national
audience.
NoCash: A bit of an obscure one but, Vince McMahon
leading U.P.Y.O.U.R.S. Vince McMahon. Union Leader. I WONDER IF HE’S GOING TO
TURN ON THEM.
My office got unionized a few months ago, where I’m a
manager. With unions comes union stewards, and elections were forthcoming. One
of the employees told me “Chris, I think you should run, you’re pretty fair.” I
looked at him in disbelief and told him “I don’t think you understand how
unions work”. I’m willing to believe Ken Shamrock and Test might have been on
this train of thought, but I can’t suspend my disbelief that Mick Foley is that
naive.
Jobber123: For me the most intelligence insulting stuff
the wwe does are most of the wwe “did you know” graphics. The wwe is
more popular than every other sport combined, has 15 million female fans, and rules
all social media. We all know those are lies but they do it after every
commercial break and it adds a stench of complete desperation for main stream
acceptance to every show they air.
The #1 trend on Twitter right now is #ChristianReturns. The
world is talking about it! Please don’t independently check this!
LeeleePhoenix: Most of it was only Internet, the Tim White
suicide ‘comedy’ bits they had for a few months in 2006. Haha, playing Pop Goes
The Weasel while someone keeps trying to kill themselves. Pointless, insulting,
stupid… like most WWE intentional comedy.
Josh Matthews tried. Man did he try. But there is no way to
make a suicidal man funny. Even after 20 failed suicide attempts.
ABeyAnce1: That whole DX Little Peoples court. Come on,
we’re suppose to suspect a whole other building is under the ring?
Midgets aren’t people like you and I. Think Fraggle Rock,
just with more devious plotting.
PeteF3: Catherine White, Mick Foley, and “Lost
in Cleveland” has to be up there.
I’m just going to assume most of the BoD audience has heard
about this, but has never seen it. Thankfully, YouTube exists. Basically, Vader
beat Cactus Jack into a pulp and had him stretchered out after one of their
many wars. Somehow, this led to Mick losing his memory and moving to Cleveland
to lead a group of hobos while (WCW?) reporter Catherine White tries to get the
full story and help him regain his memory. The angle ends when Foley reveals it
was all a ruse to get a rematch, and loses the blowoff. Here’s just one of the
awful memories:
Hoss_of_BoD: I don’t think this has ever been brought up,
but during Jake Roberts’ brief stint in WCW, he had the glove on a pole match
with Sting. Plenty about this was really insulting, including Jake holding a
snake to his face pretending that it was biting him. But, the part that always
annoyed me was that Jake had really started to put on weight, and there was NO
FUCKING WAY he was going to be able to climb that pole. Fucking dumb. Bear in
mind I’m a Roberts mark.
You reference men with too much weight to climb a pole, and
somehow avoid bringing up the Carson City Silver Dollar match between John
Tenta and Big Bubba? They had to get Jimmy Hart to shinny up the 10 foot pole, because
the other two lugs spent the whole match trying to figure out how to remove the
pole from the straps to get the sock down.
James: I’ve said this a lot on here, but the
segment where Undertaker “kills” Paul Bearer and buries him in cement
was so intelligence-insulting that it made me stop denying wrestling was fake
at 12 years old.
Yeah, I’m really not sure what the point of that one was. Or
any of the times they killed Paul Bearer, to be honest. Maybe it was their
version of Kenny.
Stelio Kontos: McMahon being the higher power, completely
going against the previous few months worth of storylines. I mean, Vince really
went through several Ministry shit-kickings and god knows what else, to what,
get one over on Austin again? No amount of retroactive continuity could make
that shit make sense.
The Immortal Hoke
Ogan:
Michael fucking Cole spouting
off an exact weight for a guy they are selling as a legit “ohmygod
surprise” return
This is something I’ve never thought of, but it’s an
excellent point. We’re honestly in one of the worst eras of announcing ever,
and lord knows I sat through an era that saw Stevie Ray, Mark Madden, and Tony
Schiavone.
BeardMoney: Would be remiss if I didn’t mention Randy
Orton trying to blow up John Cena using the pyrotechnics board in their Iron
Man match. There are so many things about that match that cause pure hatred to
ooze out of my pores. And I’m typically a pretty level guy.
I’m always reminded of Tony Schiavone getting absolutely
owned by Jesse Ventura in the late 80’s, when Tony tried justifying outside
behavior as ok because it wasn’t in the ring. Jesse suggested someone bring a
gun next time and just shoot their opponents since everything was legal outside
the ring. Tony tried backtracking, but Jesse wouldn’t give an inch.
Extant1979: I asked my girlfriend what she thought the
most insulting I’ve ever made her watch was. She made it pretty clear that
every Diva’s segment ever has been insulting to her as a woman. She’s only been
watching with me for 3-4 years. She doesn’t even know about Trish on her hands
and knees, barking like a dog; or the Lita miscarriage stuff with Kane; Piggy
James with LayCool. Bra and panties matches. “The way the WWE treats women
is really why I don’t like it.” Preach on, sweetheart! You don’t even know
the half of it.
This pretty much applies to any minority on the show. If you
aren’t a white male, then you’re going to be typecast. A woman’s role is to be
a filthy slut, who panders to men, and can’t think for herself. Which is
probably exactly how Vince likes it in real life.
joedust: Has anyone talked about Hogan/Warrior from
WCW in ’98? The smoke, Warrior disappearing and reappearing, Warrior in the
mirror that only Hogan could see… I literally can’t think of anything worse.
This was another case of WCW having absolutely no idea how
to book a former WWF star. Warrior had been built on a certain mystique, which
WCW mistook as MAGIC. It didn’t help that this was a Bischoff/Hogan vision of
how they saw the feud playing out, rather than sticking to what had worked his
whole career. An absolute embarrassment.
catfishhedberg: I remember Samoa Joe running around TNA with
a machete trying to take out the Main Event Mafia. He even disfigured Scott
Steiner so bad that Steiner had to wear a mask for 1 whole week before ditching
it with no scarring. If I’m not mistaken, all of this led to a swerve with Joe
joining the Main Event Mafia.
meka3000: In late 2011, The WWE Roster voting no
confidence in HHH being charge and fearing for their safety after all these
years, because FUCKING MIZ & R-TRUTH reeked havoc ONCE!
I guess the WCW roster was far too intimidated by Sid’s
non-stop powerbombs to do the same in the summer of 1999.
Ryan Norcross: The Nitro segments where JJ Dillion kept
offering Sting contracts to fight everybody but Hogan. Making him the only
person on Earth to not know Sting wants Hogan.
That was infuriating. WCW is desperately seeking a hero to
capitulate Hogan’s army, and have a former World Champion who has made mince
meat of the nWo everytime he’s struck basically willing to get it done, but the
idiot savant JJ Dillon decides what Sting REALLY wants is a match with Curt
Hennig. Which would only send Sting back to cry in the rafters for a few more
months.
BooBoo1782: Kane promising to kill himself if he can’t
beat Austin at KOTR ’98, coupled with the gas cans at ringside that night.
Anytime you present DEATH as the stakes of a pro wrestling match, you’ve left
the bounds of suspending disbelief.
I’m guessing you’re not a fan of the Texas Death Match.
Porn Peddlin’ Jef
Vinson:
Anytime a wrestler is
“fired” but keeps showing up to the arena anyway.
I’d argue that most wrestlers know their limitations, and
are essentially screwed for money without the job, but you’re right. Someone
saying “fair enough, I guess that’s it. It’s a good thing I’ve been taking
those online insurance courses, I’m going to give that contract at MetLife a go”,
might be a nice twist.
Adam Moore: I’m sure this has already been said, but everyone
in WCW supposedly hating everyone in NWO so much, yet they never simply refused
to not let them in the building. Then, at Fall Brawl 96, they announced that
the NWO refused to wrestle at that show, since they weren’t under WCW contract,
unless they got what they wanted.
I think because Hogan was holding their World Title hostage
by that point, they didn’t want to risk having him take it back to New York. I
don’t want to make excuses, but that angle didn’t really bother me.
WiffleBat: Any time anyone suffers a ‘mild heart
attack’ as a result of a heel’s shenanigans. Andre, Eddie Guerrero’s mother,
Flair (TWICE), and I’m sure there are a few others I’m forgetting.
I must be the biggest sucker on the planet, because I 100%
bought Flair’s first heart attack, hook, line, and sinker. I didn’t think any
promotion would be insensitive enough to fake something like that. Little did I
know. Nicely done, Uncle Eric.
Jared Bellow: Triple H appearing on Raw a mere 8 days
after being dropped 40 feet by forklift trapped in a car. It was the beginning
of making stunts look really meaningless and it was the beginning of protrcting
Triple H to where his character was no longer believable. They should have
shelved him until February and made No Way Out a blood feud between two vicious
tweeners who will stop at no costs with the violence. Instead they built it via
endless run ins. It was the prototype for people getting murdered in these B
PPV gimmick matches and returning on Raw unscathed.
I think by this point we’ve established that death is
probably not the wisest course of action to take. I remember that PPV, and
thinking for sure Triple H was dead. If nothing else, he was headed to
intensive care and we wouldn’t be seeing him for a long time. The following
night? Barely a scratch.
The Cooler: When Seargant Slaughter, the most patriotic
wrestler in history, up and becomes an Iraqi sympathizer on a whim…and the
Iron Sheik is brought in as his buddy, only under a different name. You know,
the Iron Sheik…from IRAN. Congrats WWF, you lost me until I accidentally
caught Hart/Austin @ WM13 at a buddy’s house due to this blatant xenophobic,
retarded farce.
Of course this was such a blazing success that they felt the
need to repeat this again 13 years later with Muhammed Hassan, played by an
Italian, playing the role of an Al Qaeda agent. Because he was Islamic.
CDN: The formation of NWO 2000……Bret Hart has
Goldberg in a figure-four with the referee down. Hall and Nash show up with
baseball bats and start bashing Goldberg. Next, Piper runs down to save
Goldberg and lays on top of Goldberg to absorb the punishment. The referee
wakes up, and counts the 1-2-3 with Piper laying on top of Goldberg. Your new
champion….Bret Hart. Jarrett hits the ring and all four celebrate with all
the gold. Why would the ref make the count, at all, especially with Piper on
top, then award the belt to Hart???? So fucking funny. Because WCW.
So let’s go through that WHOLE night. Bret beats Goldberg at
Starrcade via Montreal Screwjob at the hands of Earl Hebner Roddy Piper.
Kevin Nash is so torn up about this he cuts a Real Shoot Promo about never
taking advantage of The Boys in the locker room. Bret Hart swears he knew
nothing about it, and doesn’t even want the belt, unless he can wrestle
Goldberg again. Roddy Piper for some reason here is a face, who tearfully
apologizes for his role and uses his son as a human shield. He quits, but
returns by the main event when Nash and Hall are running in. He throws himself
on Goldberg to save him from the carnage, the referee counts with Bret standing
off to the side, and YOUR winner and new WCW Champion is also the CURRENT WCW
Champion Bret Hart. What … the … bloody … hell? The band is back
together, it’s ok.
SodiePop: I still remember the Bugs Bunny backstage
skit they shot with Hornswoggle and Carlito where HW spray-painted a hole in
the wall to escape from Carlito. HW ran through it, and when Carlito tried it
he ran into the wall. I stopped watching for months after that.
This segment is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I created
this thread, and I was happy to see it referenced several times. I thought this
was a long-forgotten turd floating in the septic tank of WWE headquarters, but
it had enough of an impact to linger for years.
This was the dumbest thing I ever saw. The Bugs Bunny
cartoons are cute, because they are cartoons. We all recognize there is no way
the Road Runner can sprint through a spray painted tunnel, which is why it’s
funny. It is not funny when it features real humans who are supposed to hate
each other for real. In fact, it’s insulting to everyone watching at home.
Yes, we suspend our disbelief when we watch wrestling.  However, the entire sport was built upon the
notion that promoters had the ability to control match outcomes to suit what
they felt would get the best audience reactions. While evolution is a part all
aspects of life, the one thing all of us want from wrestling is to believe what
we’re watching is possible. As soon as you negate that, you’ve lost us all
together.
Share in my rage with the video below.
And before I go, I’m going to share one more, because one
bad segment wasn’t enough. Hulk Hogan enters the DUNGEON OF DOOM! I’ll see you tomorrow.

QOTD #11: Forgotten Chris Jericho moments

It’s Tuesday morning, and the status quo remains large and
in charge. However, there was a bright spot on RAW, and that takes us to our
question:
Today’s Question:
What’s your favorite
forgotten Chris Jericho moment?
While you take some time to come up with some gold, we’ll
tackle yesterday’s answers. As always, if you want to jump right in to the
discussion, please hit the comments button or scroll to the end.

We were talking about your favorite World Title win, amongst
North American promotions. Let’s jump to it.
mattindeed: 1908. Frank Gotch beat George Hackenschmidt
for the title. Hell of a contest. Still have one of Frank’s teeth.
Awful choice. They could have easily shaved 90 minutes off
this with a little bit better planning.
Uncrusimatic_Buck_Nasty:
i’m gonna go with ones i’ve seen live, so
i’ll have to say when edge cashed in on taker in ’07
White Thunder: Anytime Ric Flair won the belt. Royal Rumble
92′ and Starrcade 95′ really stick out in my mind. For some reason his last
title win in 2000 on Nitro against Jeff Jarrett holds a sentimental place for
me.
I wish I could remember the Flair win in 2000, but I
remember being so sour about the fact they were changing the strap twice a week
that I literally can’t remember how it happened. I do recall he had another
fake heart attack that somehow led to the end of that run about 2 days later,
however. Speaking of Flair…
THE YETAAAAY: Flair beating Vader at Starrcade ’93 is a
great one. One of the last really great WCW moments before the Hogan entry
changed the fabric of the company.
The whole build-up to this was phenomenal; incredible when
you consider that it was slapped together at the last minute thanks to Sid’s
inability to keep his cool.
Marv Cresto: The end of WM20, duh, it was the culmination
of almost seven years of “smart fans” pushing for a guy to get the
big chance despite having no ability to cut a promo or make himself at all
relatable to people at large, and it worked. This would be damn near every
single person’s comment had the guy not gone on to do what he did.
Chris Hirsch: Jericho beating the Rock and Austin in the
same night to become the first undisputed champion.
You know it’s memorable when 13 years later he’s still
bringing it up.
Lenny Vowels: Probably have to go with Bret winning at
WMX. As bad as ’94 was overall, that title change was huge. I was tired of Yoko
as champion, and Bret was my favorite wrestler in the company at the time, so
seeing him win the title back was just such a glorious moment.
Knuckleberry Pinn:
Bryan winning the triple threat this year
might actually be mine. I was just totally sucked in to everything that was
going on with the fans not letting Batista’s inevitable win take place. A bunch
of us ordered the Rumble and were so so happy with what that Pittsburgh crowd
did, just like we were happy for that awesome hot crowd the night of the cage
double-cross, and just like we were proud of that basketball crowd that did the
Yes chants. Then, at Elimination Chamber, I remember feeling upset that Bryan
lost yet again, but the way Cole reacted to the loss (as was picked up on by
several commenters here), let me know that this might not be the end of things.
Then, we go to the awesome HHH / Bryan Raw segments, which set up the winner
gets the shot match. The icing on the cake was how much drama took place into
that triple threat main event. The table spot, the stretcher job, the hot near
falls. It was perfect. It was like one last time for me to feel like a mark
(albeit, in this new internet age where tweeting about how Bryan should have
been in the Rumble is akin to cheering for Austin 15 years ago). I said this before
on the blog but when Bryan won that main event and won the title, it was the
first time since Backlash 2000 where I was genuinely excited and celebrating
because “my guy” had won the belt. And like I’ve also said, I don’t
foresee that happening again anytime soon, if ever.
I was on vacation during Wrestlemania, and saw the show from
a Buffalo Wild Wings in Charlotte, NC. The entire place exploded when he won,
screaming “YES YES YES!” I wish I’d had the foresight to catch it on my cell;
it was the most amazing “bar reaction” I’ve ever seen.
Basscase: Take it back old school, and we’ll go with
Ricky Steamboat winning the NWA world title from Ric Flair at Chi-Town Rumble
89.
Extant1979: Edge cashing in on John Cena after the
Elimination Chamber at New Year’s Revolution. I was a little disappointed at
the #CenaWinsLOL – I was pulling for Kurt to win that match, so double
disappointment with his early exit. Then the cash-in happened. It was fucking
fantastic.
I had goosebumps when Edge handed the briefcase to Vince
that night. The rules of the briefcase hadn’t been fully established, other
than he was allowed a match anytime, anyplace. Would he have to give the champ
warning? Would he have to pick the venue in advance? All the questions were
answered; truly a great swerve.
Daltonimperial: Jericho beating HHH for the title on Raw in
2000. I don’t care if it wasn’t official and was reversed that same night.
Dr. Facts: I’ve always enjoyed the buildup and
execution of Rock winning at Survivor Series 98. I really enjoyed how they
booked that whole thing.
This might be the greatest “Sportz Entertainment”
pay-per-view of all time, where all the angles wrapped up into a tight little
package. The entire premise led us to believe Foley was going to be anointed the
corporate champion; the perfect red herring to keep us distracted from all the
things that went “right” for Rock.
 Jon Eks: My sentimental
favorite is, of course, Mankind’s first title win. Such a great episode of Raw
with HBK getting his comeuppance from screwing over basically everybody, DX and
the Corporation as appropriate window dressing for the match, Tony Schiavone’s
“butts in the seats” comment on Nitro, and Austin’s return to a
MASSIVE pop. Fantastic all the way around.
Adam “Colorado”
Curry:
Tommy Dreamer FINALLY winning
the ECW title. Too bad that a few minutes later it was followed by my least
favorite title change ever.
Despite the opponent, I think the moment so perfectly
cemented Tommy Dreamer’s career – as the guy who could always come so close but
just never get there. I know a lot of people definitely wanted to see him get a
run with the belt, but with better booking they could have milked this for
crazy sympathy forever.
James: Austin at WrestleMania 14. The crowd pop,
JR’s commentary, and Austin finally winning it after years of adversity.
Completely changed the WWF
Peyton_Drinking: I’m kind of surprised no one has mentioned
Hulk/Goldberg I mean had Hulk jobbed like that since WM VI?
This one gets severely underappreciated over time, as I
think Hogan’s remembered as an over-the-hill politician doing the deed in an
effort to later syphon off his heat; and Goldberg is remembered as a selfish “what’s
in it for me” pain in the ass. At the time, the entire air around this was
euphoric – FINALLY we had the guy who did to Hogan what Sting SHOULD have 8
months earlier. One of the most emotional pops you’ll ever see coming from the
hometown Georgia crowd.
Chris B: Maybe its because of Scott’s Raw rants, but
I’ll never stop loving Backlund winning the title from Bret in one of the most
awesome, incomprehensibly effective heel turns ever. Of course they pissed it
away.
JohnPetuka: A lot of picks for Foley, but from my
personal view, I don’t see how you don’t go with Punk winning it at MitB 2011.
This was more than just a feel good moment. You had an emergent superstar who
seemed to talk directly to the fans with Punk. You had the #1 heel in the
smarks’ eyes in a stale Cena. You had the complete uncertainty of what the hell
was going to happen (Is this Punk’s last match? CenaWinsLOL? What are they
going to do if Punk wins?). So, the biggest face beats the most genuinely hated
heel in an unpredictable moment with promises of more unpredictable moments to
come. Yes, I was marking out, bro (TM Striker). Shit, sometimes it seems like
half the people here skipped watching WWE most of the years between 2007 and
2011 only to come back immediately prior or right after this title change.
Lots of votes for this one, no surprises here. The fact we
knew Punk hadn’t signed his new contract made it seem impossible for them to
put the belt on him; but he was so over, and the place was ready to riot if
they dared the LOLCENAWINS route that it seemed impossible for them NOT to put
the belt on him. The explosion when he won, followed by the missed cash in, and
the blowing of the kiss was the cherry on top. It was so disappointing he came
back so fast, because the angle was perfection to that point.
BooBoo1782: I will always have a personal soft spot for
Bret Hart’s first two title wins, over Flair and Yokozuna. I attended a Nassau
Coliseum house show four days after Bret beat Flair in Saskatoon, and got the
awesome surprise of hearing about the match in the arena before it had been on
TV, and learning that Bret’s scheduled match with Nailz had been upgraded to a
title match and made the main event (the scheduled main, Warrior-Flair no
longer for the title, went on just before intermission). The Coliseum video
that featured the title change (along with the Bret-Shawn ladder match that
Vince wanted as a demonstration) was a great find, both when I rented it as a
kid and bought it used in college. I was disappointed to think that Flair
didn’t like the match from a technical standpoint, but of course, he’s entitled
to his opinion.
MC Hesher: A retrospective disappointment: Orton’s win
at Summerslam ’04. I came back after a two year hiatus and literally shouted,
“Holy Shit! Benoit’s champ!” upon turning on Raw. Obviously a
transitional champ, but hey, repeated victories over HHH and Michaels. Once it
became clear he was putting Orton over at Summerslam, I was thrilled. I cannot
overstate how much I loved Orton’s Legend Killer gimmick, and he was awesome to
watch in the ring. The Summerslam title match was as good as I’d hoped, and I
was so happy he got a world title before Cena did. This was gonna push my boy
Randy to top heel, and give us a great ‘Evolution Implodes’ slow-burn
storyline. I figured HHH would turn face after getting turfed out, beat him at
Wrestlemania, and that was cool by me.
I was at SummerSlam 2004, and you were not alone. There was
a shockingly large number of Orton fans in the house, wearing the Legend Killer
shirt, and just waiting for the moment. I was on a bus heading back to Ottawa
about an hour after the show, and there was a group of about a dozen friends
who could not stop carrying on about how they were there, the night Randy Orton
won his first World Championship. Granted, they were drunker than Bobby Heenan
on a regular Monday Nitro, but they couldn’t get over it.
 

Michael Weyer: Always loved Rock at Backlash 2000, against
the McMahon grouping with Shane as ref, he and HHH going at it hard and fast,
the McMahons ganging up on him…and then the glass shatters, Stone Cold comes
out to destroy everyone with a chair and Rock gets a pin to a mega pop. That’s
how you nicely overbook and great highlight of a great year for WWF.

dirtyearsbill: Eddie beating Brock. Hands down my favorite
wrestling moment. Being there in person at the Cow Palace was surreal.
I happen to agree with you.
I don’t think any of us truly thought they’d go the distance
with Guerrero, even when the whispers started about Angle and Eddie potentially
working Mania for the strap. Between the strange decision to have the Big Show
beat him for the US title, and their failed attempts to make him a heel, there
seemed to be a disconnect between bookers and fans.
The match itself couldn’t have been built up any sweeter,
with your classic Rocky vs Drago setup; or more classically David vs Goliath.
The pint-sized fighter with the heart of gold takes on the unstoppable monster,
and gives it everything he has. Still, he can’t put the beast down, and things
look bleak a number of times – but the hero escapes at the last second.
Yes, it took a Goldberg run-in, but I didn’t care then and I
don’t care now. It led to the sweetest championship moment I ever got to witness
when Eddie overcame drugs, near death, and everything else that plagued him to
beat Lesnar and capture the gold. I can still see the frog splash in my mind
clear as day.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, and I’ll be here
again with you tomorrow.

Repost: 10 Best Warrior Moments

I'd just post the original file from my computer but I think legally I can't.  Anyway, I wrote this piece a month or so ago when Warrior's induction was originally announced, and it was intended to be followed by a "Warrior's 10 craziest moments" article, but I didn't want to write that one.  And yes, I know Brother Love came back in 1996.

30 Greatest WrestleMania Moments – WWE Top 10 Special Edition

OK, let’s talk about this now, shall we?

– Austin v. Michaels at #1…no way.  Hogan slamming Andre is clearly #1, not only on a list of WM moments but of moments in wrestling history all-time.

– John Cena v. Rock II at #7 or whatever it was can suck my ass.

– Hogan-Rock should have been higher still.  70,000 people losing their minds and jumping up and down like little kids at least warrants #3.

– I kind of liked the contrast of Shawn’s career ending, followed immediately by Flair’s career ending.

– The Savage-Liz reunion is insultingly low.

They sure do love them some Shawn Michaels, don’t they?

Top 10 Ultimate Warrior Moments

Let us celebrate the career of Ultimate Warrior before his Hall of Fame induction.  I bet his speech will be enough of a trainwreck to qualify for this list, but obviously I couldn't see into the future to add it.  
I also have my 5 Best / 5 Worst Returns list waiting to be published, so that should be up in a day or two as well.  

Defining moments of a feud

Hello
 
What would you say was the definining moment or match of the following feuds?
 
1. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes
2. Midnight Express vs R and R Express
3. Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage
4. Steve Austin vs Vince MacMahon
5. Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart
6. John Cena vs Edge
7. Hulk Hogan vs Sting
 
and
 
8.  CM punk vs John Cena
 
Thanks

 

1.  The PPV debut of the Dusty Finish at Starrcade 85.
2.  No real "defining" one, I'd say.
3.  The backstage brawl on The Main Event that turned Savage into the biggest star in the world for a while.
4.  The Tyson brawl in February of 98 or Over the Edge with the Vince as referee gig.
5.  Bret does the first 20 minute interview on RAW from a wheelchair, goes way long, Shawn superkicks him and throws a fit backstage.  
6.  Edge wins the title, ratings go way up, he drops the belt back to Cena at the Rumble because HHH.  
7.  Sting rappelling down from the ceiling to challenge him at Starrcade.  It was all downhill from there.
8.  MITB, duh.

LoW Roundtable: Most Important Moments

I don’t think I need to define what a most important moments show is about.

Okerlund is your moderator and the panel is Foley, Ric Flair, Tazz and JR

Foley’s biggest moment involves Snuka (no shit) and it’s the two leaps off the cage. The one against Bob Backlund that missed is rarely seen so the footage of it is pretty cool. Okerlund questions why that moment and Foley said that back in those days with limited TV and coverage it was just something that stuck out. Flair said that Snuka has jumped off the cage and landed on him 300 times thorough the Mid-Atlantic. Flair said it hurt. Very dismissive there.

Flair’s moment is the day that McMahon announced that the business to sports entertainment to avoid paying taxes. He said it changed the way wrestlers were perceived. Tazz questions things and Flair says Tazz wasn’t old enough to remember and Tazz reminds Flair that he’s 40. Flair says it was a positive but he couldn’t wrap himself around it at the time.

(Clips of McMahon’s promo “The Cure for the Common Show” where he explains the creative process to the minions and tells the WWF Universe that its tired of having its intelligence insulted. Worth seeking out if you can.)

Tazz’s moment is when Shane McMahon walked in a WCW ring. Flair says he predicted it a year before it happened. JR says that when Vince decided to go nationals with his northeast promotion was one of the more significant moments in the landscape of the business and truly made the wrestling brand worldwide. Okerlund said the issue was forced by cable TV and Vince had no choice because eventually the regional promotions would overlap with talent. Foley asks if Vince was the first to go national or was it WCCW. Ross says it was Joe Blanchard with Southwest Championship Wrestling on the USA Network. Flair said Blanchard didn’t have a clue (so? that wasn’t Ross’ point). Ross says one of the reasons McMahon was so successful is because he outworked the other guys and the other territory owners didn’t have the background in marketing and branding.

Flair said that Harley Race told him in 1978 that if he wanted to be a big star he needed to go on cable TV. Okerlund points out that most of the significant moments mentioned were out of the ring. Flair said that the day McMahon bought WCW was the greatest day of his life outside of his retirement and takes a hilarious shot at Bob Geigel and Rufus Jones for money they owe him. He rips on WCW and Russo for their lack of organization. Foley said he was standing next to Stephanie and she was so emotional and it meant more to the McMahon family than people will ever know. Flair rips the guys who left the WWF to come to WCW originally. Says most of the them were average performers and left a great flagship company for instant gratification. Okerlund says it worked for a while but Flair said it would never last.

Foley brings up the point that the competition worked for everyone but Flair said it was hindering the WCW from developling new talent because they were pushing the same retreads and it was easy to see it was going to bite them in the ass. Foley said that a few months after the purchase he sensed the WWE product was declining and he saw things that never would have made the air otherwise being produced on the show.

Okerlund asks Foley what his thoughts were when Nitro debuted and Flair interrupts and blasts Lex Luger and Bret Hart as not being a big deal because they were to the next place after the guy from the first place didn’t want them. Foley said to the public Luger was a big deal. Ross said there was a surprise when Luger went to the WCW because Luger had went back on his word to McMahon and Ross. They ramble on a bit more and Flair brings up “Oklahoma” and said it was disgusting. He says Ross is a Hall of Famer and the other guys work for TNA (“What is TNA?” Flair asks). Flair goes on for a while longer.

(They show clips of Oklahoma and “Dr. Death” Steve Williams. I’m still a little surprised Williams agreed to go along with this given how close he and Ross were. But I remember Eric Bischoff’s point of being paid to do and not being paid to think.)

Flair goes into a story about him and Space Mountain…pretty pointless stuff. Ross tries to reel this one back in and talks about how Lou Thesz was mentioned among the shoot fighters or boxers like Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. Ross talks about the NWA being a coup to get all the promoters together and out of it spawned a lot of successful territories. Ross says that when Vince Sr. chose Bruno Sammartino to be his guy in 1963 that was the first sign of division among the ranks.

(Old school clips of Vince Jr. interviewing Bruno. Always cool to watch to classic footage like that.)

After a break Flair has a huge stogie and appears to be more calm. Ross continues talking about the issues with the NWA and says the Starrcade match with Harley Race in 1983 was a significant moment because it was an official passing of the torch. Flair talks about how Harley was talking about not showing up because of business (he dismisses Mick’s relationship with Harley in the process of course) but Harley wasn’t one to go against his word. He got to Greensboro in bad weather and Ross explains that Greensboro was hard to get to. Harley said he was there for Flair and then extorted Crockett out of another $25,000 for showing up. Flair talks about banging a couple of broads or something and it’s funny but a little sad.

Okerlund tries to talk about the AWA and Flair keeps rambling so Okerlund jokingly offers him the moderation chair. So Flair goes back to talking about himself. Okerlund talks about his arrival in the WWF and talks about Hogan’s victory over the Iron Sheik and says it turned everything on his ear. Ross said he told Hogan to his face that he has respect for what he’s done for the business and he talks about how guys would look on the booking sheet for Hogan’s name and just pray that they were somewhere on a card he headlined because of the increased payday. Ross talks about how Hogan was the reason that the WWF was on network television and got the Saturday Night’s Main Event deal. Foley said he was at MSG when the Sheik beat Backlund but not when Hulk beat the Sheik. He said after the Hogan victory his group of friends that talked about wrestling expanded significantly.

Okerlund talks about Austin and the berth of the attitude era. Tazz says that ECW or at least the ECW’ers felt they started the attitude era. Tazz said he was the first guy to flip someone off in the audience. Tazz and Foley talk about Austin’s short time in the ECW and how fired up he was. Flair said Hogan was the biggest star in the business until Austin came along. Flair said he has no qualms about saying Hogan was a much bigger star than him. Flair said when Austin was in the WWF he did more for the business before the match, during the match and after the card than anyone ever. He connected with the crowd and even when the cameras went off he could still keep the people in the building for another hour.

Foley pinpoints one Austin moment and says the debut of Austin 3:16. Ross said he told Austin he would be the biggest hero the company have ever seen and Austin would disagree. Ross said his drive was greater than anyone could imagine and he was such an overachiever. And when Mr. McMahon went on screen, everything was magnified. He mentions the first signs of the character when McMahon and Bret had a pull apart brawl in Halifax (that is one of the most awesome, shocking moments I EVER saw on wrestling TV). Ross said it was at that moment when Vince saw that he had something.

(They show clips of this awesome bit of television that really, in my opinion, helped Vince get his swag back and prepare for the war with WCW. The Canadian crowd makes it even better because they were so jacked up. And the fact that it was an even brawl with Vince even grabbing the shirt and getting the upper hand made it that much more shocking. I can’t really describe it well but when you saw it your jaw dropped.)

Ross said the greatest antagonists are easy to dislike and he mentions Paul Heyman at being one of those guys. He says McMahon took it to another level to where people paid night after night to watch him get his. Foley said the night at MSG when Austin finally stunned him was such a great payoff and Ross points out that they made sure it happened at the world’s most famous arena. Tazz also talks about the Curtain Call that was also at MSG and Foley talks about how Triple H had to pay the price for that and in a way it helped mold him into the character he became. Flair rips on the Outsiders again saying Hall’s claim to fame was being in the ring with Shawn Michaels and a ladder while Nash’s claim to fame was his pedestrian basketball career at the University of Tennessee and being a bouncer at the Gold Club. He goes on for two minutes.

Ross talks about Shawn leaving the business with an injury and a bad attitude and returns with a changed attitude and delivers upon his return. Flair says Shawn is the best of all time. Foley talks about the announcement of JR going in the Hall of Fame was a great spontaneous moment and the RAW after Wrestlemania XXIV. Foley says he wishes he could have been at both and Flair asks why he wasn’t and says “because you’re a barbed wire specialist.” That was odd.

(Clips of Flair’s final 24 hours as an active wrestler and the RAW speech afterward.)

Go around the horn: Foley says most significant was when Steve Austin became Stone Cold. Flair says it was the day he debuted (modest until the end). Tazz says when WWE purchased WCW. JR said the backstage issues before the Austin-Michaels main event at Wrestlemania XIV from Shawn’s attitude to the beginning of the Austin era. Flair ends it with a story of his partying and having three million Marriott points.

The Bottom Line: Well I had been waiting for this one for a while. Yes Flair was horribly overbearing at times and it was uncomfortable in spots. Sift past the self-glorifying BS and there was some decent stuff there. Worth watching for several reasons.

ECW Memorable Moments Plug

Hey Scott,
Even though you're not too fond of ECW nor the 'Philly mutants' (of which I am one…well, a South Jersey mutant), thought you'd enjoy this look back at ECW's most memorable moments. I figured I'd better strike while there's hype over Heyman being around, as well as the new ECW DVD.
http://bluebarcage.blogspot.com/2012/06/top-50-moments-in-ecw-history.html

I was actually supposed to be getting that ECW DVD to review, and it never ended up getting here.  I was actually kind of curious about it, too.  Oh well, there's always Best of Falls Count Anywhere Matches at the end of the month.  No really, that's a real thing.  

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.

10 Scariest Moments on Sesame Street

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/dn/fmd/34061-top-10-scariest-moments-on-sesame-street Given that I have to watch a LOT of Sesame Street these days (and Special Agent Oso, and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse…) this is a timely topic for me.  I totally remember the Count sleeping over and turning Ernie into a zombie the next morning, although I don’t see what’s so terrifying about the I-Beam sketch.  People on the internet get freaked out by weird things, I guess.