Lex Luger heel turn in 1994?

I’ve been going through the Raw shows of 1994 and my question – did they ever consider having Luger turn heel & join the Million Dollar Man? It was obvious from the beginning he wasn’t, but wouldn’t it have been so much better for Luger, who was stuck in the mud as a face? He was like the #5 face by the end of the year, but could’ve been a main event heel & helped the DiBiase’s corporation feel more like a threat. Heel Tatanka was sad.

Take a drink.

And no, Luger was never planned to be a heel. Probably would have helped immensely, but it just wasn’t where they wanted to go with him.

Heel Steiners?

Hey Scott,


I’ve been watching a bunch of old Steiner Brothers matches of late. It amazes me they spent their entire 1st WCW and WWF runs as babyfaces when everything about their style screams heel. Their body language, the way they’d smile when suplexing people, they didn’t give anyone much offense, and they were kind of bullies in the ring. And that doesn’t even go into how stiff and rough they were.

Didn’t anyone see the money in an extended Steiner’s run as dominant, viscous heels? Or were bookers so enamored with their amateur background and relatively wholesome looks?


Yeah, pretty much. I mean obviously Scott Steiner figured out himself that the money was in being a heel later on, but I think most people that booked them just wanted them at most to be the "rough babyface" character like Lou Thesz used to do. But I mean, sure in hindsight we know what an awesome heel that Scott turned out to be, but for years and years they were natural babyfaces even with their behavior in the ring, so I can see why no one wanted to try something different. If it’s still making money, why change it?

Barber Heel Turn?


Scott, 


Hulk Hogan feuded with Mr. Perfect in late '89-early '90. At the same time, I remember an angle run on TV where Brutus Beefcake had a run in with "The Model" Rick Martel

​​

, cutting up his clothes that he had been modelling, kick off a feud between those two. Then it seemed that it was abruptly changed, when Beefcake had a run in with Mr. Perfect at the Royal Rumble, totally no-selling the run in he had with Martel a couple weeks before. 


It seems to me that Beefcake was being put in a feud with a guy who was a hot heel at the time, with the heat from the Hogan-Perfect feud now being transferred to Beefcake-Perfect. Then Beefcake gets into the career-defining accident, cutting everything off. 

Given that Hogan got his feud with Beefcake at Starrcade '94, do you think that Beefcake was being groomed as yet another "Hogan friend turned enemy" run, if he had not gotten into the accident?

​I doubt it.  Beefcake already had his run with Hulk in 85 and didn't do any business, so I don't see them bothering with another try in 91. Clearly Beefcake was someone who the fans wouldn't buy as a heel anyway, as WCW discovered many times.  Plus you would think Beefcake would have been smart enough to know that his bread was clearly buttered on the Hulk side.  Although try clearly missed an opportunity by not having him ever betray Hulk so that we could someone crying 'ET TU, BRUTI?' in the context of a ​wrestling angle.  

Luger’s WWF run and why it failed as heel and face.

Scott,

In the King Lear rant you wrote (copying and pasting from the Scott Sez version):

"Well, now Hogan was gone and fans needed another reason to care. Want an example of what I mean? Take Bob Holly, for instance. When he started in the WWF, he was called "Sparky" Thurman Plugg, which is a semi-clever play on "STP" and "spark plug". Hah hah, right? But just looking at that gimmick, do you cheer him or boo him? And why?  (You boo him because he’s a dick, although we didn’t know how much of one at that point.)  
It was that "why" that really got to the fans. Because Vince would just keep sticking guys out there with silly names and silly costumes and pretty soon no one cared anymore. Vince produced the evil martial artist Kwang, who didn't get a reaction because he didn't do anything particularly evil. So he repackaged him as the good Caribbean legend Savio Vega, and again he didn't get much of a reaction because he didn't do anything particularly good. Vince, ironically, was the last to "get it". The fans were asking "Why should we boo a plumber? Why should we cheer a garbageman? Why should even bother to care one way or another about Jerry Lawler's evil dentist?" The WWF's answer was basically "Because we told you so" and that's where it all went bad. (Doesn’t THAT sound familiar?) "

You know which guy this point really reminded me of (and yes I know this was a few years before the period you're talking about in the rant)?

This reminded me of Lex Luger's entire WWF run- and largely for the same reasons for both his heel and face runs.

They bring him in as The Narcissist and don't give him any character development beyond "He's a guy who loves to look at himself in the mirror".

He didn't do anything particularly bad, and didn't really get any mic time to build himself up as any kind of character. He just posed a lot in front of his mirror and knocked guys out with his STEEL FOREARM OF DESTRUCTION AND EXTREME UNCOMFORT!

How is that supposed to make me want to boo the guy? If I had the abs of Lex Luger circa 1992 I'd probably be kind of narcissistic, too!

Okay, so obviously that gimmick wasn't getting him any heel heat, so with Hogan gone they hit the panic button and abruptly (very abruptly!) turned him face, had him slam Yokozuna, and stick him on a bus to kiss hands and shake babies in an attempt to make him Hulk Hogan 2.0.

And that ultimately failed too, because for all the effort they put into pushing him (at least this time he got over to some degree) they again didn't do anything to develop him as a character or give him any kind of reason for kids (or anyone) to particularly give a damn about him beyond the fact that he loves MURICA instead of himself now.

So they stuck him in a heatless mid card tag-team with another guy who wasn't able to get over.

The difference between Hulk Hogan and Lex Luger was that Hulk Hogan had character and charisma, and could make a 12 year old really believe in him and care about whatever feud he happened to be in at the time.

Yes, the fact that they booked Luger to win SummerSlam 1993 against Yokozuna by count out (?) didn't help him any, but even a world title run wouldn't have saved the gimmick.

I'm not sure I agree 100% with your detective work there, Lou. I think Luger's big push was working just fine once they focused on the Made in the USA aspect and gave him the bus and everything, but it was specifically building to him winning the World title and once he failed at that everything else became aimless.  You can say a lot of things against the gimmick in hindsight, but at the time this wasn't a Daniel Bryan situation where there was someone else fans were screaming to be champion more than Luger.  Yeah, that became Bret Hart later on, but people were more than ready for Luger to win that belt and accept him as champion.  

Nash’s debut as a heel in WCW


So as you covered in the last Nitro rant, Nash debuts on Nitro as a heel who we're supposed to hate because he and Scott want to take over WCW, right?

The problem with that is that from that very first promo with Tony, Kevin's lines were A). Very funny, and B). The truth.

So remind me why was I supposed to boo him and root for the WCW losers again? I was cheering Scott during his debut week, and Kevin the week after because they were doing something interesting, cool, and unique.
Well…yeah.  They were cool heels.  That's why they were so unique and drew shitloads of money.  No one had really done that before.  It also killed the company in the long run.  Other than that, I'm not really sure where you're going with this.  

Biggest Heel Win at Mania

Hi, Scott.  Do you think the babyfaces will win each of the four big singles matches at 'Mania, or will WWE throw at least one curveball?  Looking at each match individually, I think Reigns, Cena, Sting and 'Taker will win, but it would also seem kind of odd for the potential biggest heel win on the show to be Rollins (a stip match with Orton at Extreme Rules makes sense, and Orton shouldn't have the Raw beatdown and win the first match).  I suppose the faces winning but the show ending with Rollins successfully cashing in would provide some balance but don't think WWE would have Roman's first title reign end like Bryan's did at Summerslam.

​No, they will not.  I can definitely see Cena losing, though, and probably Sting as well.  Taker's not coming back to do a job, though.  ​

Cena WAS planned to turn heel in 2011

Normally I would post this somewhere in the BoD comments (HUSS!), but I figured it might warrant it's own post. Here's something for everyone who wants Cana to ever turn heel: Chris Hero just dropped on Rosenberg & The Masked Man's 'Cheap Heat' podcast that they actually had a plan to turn him heel after Wrestlemania in 2011, after the 1st Rock match was announced (and probably specifically for that reason). Cena spent $5,000 of his own money on new gear before being told they changed their minds & he said they decided he would "officially never turn heel."

Now whether that still stands after his merch numbers start to fall (if they ever do), who knows. But for all the theorists, there was at least an official plan at some point in the fairly recent past.
​I would be somewhat dubious towards the veracity of that information.  But it's certainly been discussed before, no doubt.  ​


Heel Hogan in WWF circa 1993?


​​


Was it ever on the cards for Hulk Hogan to turn heel in the WWF back in 1993, prior to him leaving for WCW?

With hindsight, it seems like it would've been the natural thing to do. His act was already stale by that point and the fans were starting to turn against him anyway. A Hogan heel turn would've generated massive publicity for the struggling WWF at that time, and a feud between the newly hated Hogan and Bret Hart as the babyface underdog could've been a big draw.

All you ever heard from Vince McMahon at the time though was that he wanted Hulk Hogan to become the "Babe Ruth of the WWF", steadily phased out of the limelight but brought back periodically as a "special attraction".

McMahon was so fixated on this particular conception of Hogan's future that he couldn't see the forest for the trees. He could've stolen a march on WCW by a good three years and made a mint from a Hogan heel run.

Were they that blind that they couldn't see it? Surely turning a wrestler when his act is going stale is one of the oldest tricks in the wrestling promoter's manual? Did McMahon really just see Hogan as a perennial good guy and nothing besides?

​Sure seems that way.  Hogan for his part was equally behind the times, as he didn't see Bret Hart as a viable alternative to the top babyface spot, so blame can go both ways there.  And then look at what Vince did as soon as Hogan left — he tried to create Lex Luger in his image as another patriotic top musclehead babyface!  Plus, although Hogan's act was stale, it's not like people were actively booing him like they were once he got to WCW, so the dynamic might not have worked the same.  ​

QOTD #47: Heel Turns

Question of the day: Besides Hulk Hogan, who’s heel turn surprised you the most?

Yesterday’s Question: Who’s your favorite professional athlete of all-time – outside of the wrestling business? 


As usual, you guys didn’t disappoint with the responses……………….





ToddLorenz: It’s not even close. Earl Campbell.

Yeah
Earl was pretty awesome – no argument there.

Aric Johnson: Tom Brady. Anybody you doesn’t like it can seriously kiss
my fucking ass.

Alrighty
then (talk about a complete 180)….



Mikey
Mike
: Albert Belle. He was my favorite player when I
started watching baseball in the mid 90s and was such a badass on top of being
one of the best hitters in baseball. Two favorite memories of Albert are when
getting his bat checked for cork in the 95 playoffs he pointed at his bicep and
told Red Sox mgr Kevin Kennedy “The Cork is right here bitch.”

My
favorite baseball moment of the 1990s. I was kinda sad at the way he went out….can
you imagine how those Capital Hill hearings would have ended if Albert Belle
was on the stand instead of McGuire? I’d pay MONEY to see that

jobber123: I used to be a die hard boxing fan and RJ was my guy all the
way. That fucking chicken wing punch was the coolest shit ever. Now a days my
favorite fighter is Andre Ward. Mostly because I’ve followed him from day one
because James Prince and rap a lot were his promoters.



I
thought Roy Jones was awesome too….but I have to admit: this clip is HILARIOUS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcl0u5OfD_M


TMCoolTrainerBret: It was Steve Yzerman at first but reading Alan
Eagleson’s demolition job on hockey got me off that sport. I was partial to
Marc Bulger, but then he got sacrificed so badly by the Rams that they might as
well have painted a six pointed star surrounded by a circle with candles and
Latin tomes and shit and just done it there instead of behind the worst
offensive line in football.

Nowadays I like Mike Trout. I’m getting into boxing a bit because I did
research to write up a boxing match for BoD Raw, so Gennady Golovkin is someone
I’m keeping an eye on. For MMA, I’ve always been impressed by Jose Aldo, and
think hes basically the best in the world right now.

If we go into fiction? Well that really opens things up. Chris Smoove on
YouTube in his NBA series is my ideal type of basketball player, a point guard
that can direct the offense, make 3 with high levels of accuracy, and posterize
noobs when necessary. I also like Shin Seijuuro from Eyeshield 21, a football
comic in Japan, where Shin is a decently powerful high school linebacker capable
of running a 40 in 4.2 seconds. Another Japanese comic guy I think is hype is
Maruo Eiichirou from Baby Steps, who is a tennis player that relies on
intelligence and guile rather than power and speed, although he does undergo a
physical transformation that enables him to play tennis at a higher level and
be able to hold his end of the game power and speed-wise.

X-Man: Easy.. Muhammad Ali… the Greatest. I idolized him growing up,
his swagger, his boxing acumen, and his rags to riches story. He fought for
America in the Olympics, he fought against America during the Vietnam War, went
to jail for it, and came out a hero.

Muhammad
Ali – The Greatest. Gotta respect a man willing to pay the ultimate price.
Courage gets thrown around a lot, but he epitomized it.

parallax: Ken Griffey Jr. he was so good that he kept up with the
steroid monsters in the 1990’s in home runs and to my knowledge never once got
accused of taking any. If he wasn’t such a show off in the outfield causing him
to get hurt so much he would have broken Hank Aaron’s record. If he had a more
engaging personality and wasn’t so reserved he would have been the Michael
Jordan of baseball.



Jobber123: My favorite football player of all time is the great Steve Young, and
the closest I ever came in my life to a bar fight was against some dude who
called him a one hit wonder and a Mormon faggot. I was ready to fucking step
outside right then and there but cooler heads prevailed. I was born in 1982 and
have watched football as long as I can remember, and I love the 49ers but I
have never seen a more bad ass football player than young. He was fucking crazy
tough, super clutch, played with a total flair and was 15 years ahead of his
time. The 1994 Superbowl was awesome but my greatest Steve Young memory was him
firing a picture perfect pass to TO to finally beat the fucking packers (who I
hate more than any other football team including the cowboys)



Riraho: Whoa, tough one. With honorable mention to Larry Bird, Kevin McHale,
Martin Brodeur, Patrik Elias, Wayne Gretzky and Tom Brady…
…I’d have to say Drew Bledsoe. He was my clear favorite in my hardcore
growing up sports crazy time frame. Which made for a bizarre dynamic for me
when Brady took his place and started winning.

Jared Bellow: It’s a tough call…and maybe more of a personal
fascination…Mike Tyson. The kind of power and drive he had was just unreal,
he was a force of pure malevolence.

Generally I lean more toward “all time greatest” types like Jordan or
Anderson Silva but Tyson, and especially his story and what became of him, are
fascinating to me.



WILLYOUSTOP?: Being from Denver, no question: John Elway. His winning two Super Bowls
at the end of his career was the perfect storybook ending, particularly when
you consider that the only reason the Broncos got the “privilege” of
being slaughtered in three previous Super Bowls was Elway carrying the team to
the big one.

After that, George Brett has always been a favorite.

Great
answers from the blog. We also got the requesite handful of Michael Jordan
responses as well, and there’s no question hes the greatest. My personal choice
would be Deion Sanders – without question. I’m a bit surprised nobody said it,
but still. How many guys can be so great at 2 different sports as Primetime?






QOTD #15: Ill Conceived Heel Turns

Happy long weekend BoD! All is right with the world; Joey
Chestnut reigns supreme, and the Cubs waved the white flag.
Today’s Question:
What was the most
ill-conceived heel turn you ever saw?
Answers tomorrow. If you want to head over to the
discussion, just scroll to the end of this column, or hit “Comments” at the
top.

Yesterday, I asked you about your favorite 4th of
July traditions. These are things that are specific to you; and as a result I’m
not going to comment, but rather share some of the variety of answers you
brought to the blog.
SodiePop: Used to be the entire family going to a
family friend’s house on the lake (pretty well-off folks) and going boating,
tubing and grill out. Nothing beat that. That family ended up breaking up,
everyone sort of went their separate ways about 10 years ago and the tradition
died. I still miss the hell out of those days, and ever since then the 4th
hasn’t been the same. I still struggle to find BBQs and parties to attend every
year, sadly.
BooBoo1782: Now, my favorite Fourth tradition is the
Boston Pops concert at the Hatch Shell. I’ve gone twice and caught the tail end
of a third (the one with David Lee Roth) from Storrow Drive), and had a
blast…also enjoy watching on TV when I can’t go to Boston.
TseugThatsGuestSpeltBackwards:
When I was a kid, the people on my block
would blow up old appliances (tvs, stereos, etc.) Those were the good ole days
parallax1978: Playing a game of Civilization 4 as George
Washington, watching a documentary from History Channel on the revolution, and
then watching Independence Day the movie.
Mister_E_SeesTheLineInTheSand:
Everyone knows that July 1st is really
where it’s at, but this year I decided in honour of you murican’s that I’d go
out and get half plastered on the company dime. You’re welcome, we can
definitely talk about making this a tradition.
daveschlet: Mine is watching War Games 1, from July 4,
1987. I watch it every 4th of July. One of my favorite matches ever and easily
*****
And finally, the winner of the comment of the day because
this just sound so bloody awesome…
jobber123: My favorite 4th of July tradition is going
out drinking on Newport ave in ocean beach and then watching the fireworks on
the beach…and then taking part in the annual marshmallow fight. Once the fire
works start THOUSANDS of people start throwing marshmallows at each other. I
remember the first year I was just randomly there and I was fucking blown away
by what was happening. Been back for every year since, I’ll be there tonight!
Sometimes I just like to hangout and watch it and if you aren’t throwing them
no one will throw them at you…unless your perched up on one of the rocks to
watch the fireworks. The you get smoked either way. The first time I went there
was this wicked young couple probably like 18/19 year old kids up on a rock
kissing under the fireworks and when it the marshmallows came out they got the
full on assault.
My neighborhood absolutely needs to adopt this. Mallowing
the hell out of unsuspecting newbs would make my year, and the fact that all
ages can get involved makes this all the better. One condition however; they
MUST be cleaned up before the morning, because holy hell the bugs!

Thanks for stopping in. As always, I’ll catch
you tomorrow, same BoD time, same BoD place.

Heel Stone Cold Steve Austin Circa 2001


Scott-

Just watched a video from RAW, April 2001 where Stone Cold was battling The Rock in the steel cage. At some point during the match, because Austin is now aligned with Mr. McMahon, HHH comes down and helps beat down the Rock.

If my memory serves me, this Austin heel turn was very unpopular, especially after they spent all that time building him up. Was there a long term plan with this story line, or was Vice just seeing what the fans would ultimately tolerate, and thus turning Austin back to a face just a few short months later?

Thanks.

​That cage match should have been the babyface turn that made HHH into a main event superhero.  People were READY for the HHH/Rock alliance to oppose Austin and instead we got the opposite.  That may have been the downfall of the entire Attitude Era in that one match, in fact.

Anyway, yes, there was definitely a long-term plan, which was heel Austin putting over babyface HHH at Wrestlemania 18 to cap off the insanely successful Invasion storyline that would see WCW spun off into its own revived TV show and touring company.  Clearly, things did not go according to plan.  They honestly thought that Austin's heel turn was going to be a thing that worked and that fans would somehow accept it and it would freshen up his character, which of course everyone beforehand was calling as totally ridiculous before it even happened.

Cena as a heel

Aside from a turn making no sense from a business stand point, I also don't think it makes sense from the stand point that a heel Cena was actually pretty terrible to be honest. Mind you I'm old school and prefer my heels making me want to legitimately hate them, not repeating their catch phrases or laughing at their raps. I just always felt Cena never had it in him to be a real true heel. If it didn't work 10 years ago why would anyone think it would work today?

Interested in your thoughts on this.

He's not turning heel.  Although you are objectively wrong if you think that the Doctor of Thuganomics wasn't awesome.  Cena's promo work on Monday and in previous times shows that if he wanted to be a true heel, he would RULE.  Hell, look up a clip of his OCD behavior with Nikki on Total Divas, where he's apparently a condescending dick.  That character, the corporate musclehead stooge super-jock who never let go of the high school pecking order, would be PERFECT for him.

Austin Heel turn day

Hi Scott,

I'm sure you're loving these questions today. I actually get Vince's motivation for teaming with his arch-enemy. For someone with as large an ego as Mr McMahon, having your nemesis come to you on his knees and ask you for help must have been extremely rewarding (he probably wishes Turner had come crawling to him to buy him out). Plus, he couldn't beat Austin, so he might as well join him.

What I didn't get about the angle is what was HHH's motivation to team with Austin? After all, he once paid someone off to try and run Austin over and kill him (then Austin returned the favor by dropping HHH from the top of crane). When he came out to confront Austin the night after Wrestlemania, the crowd was ready to embrace him before he attacked the Rock. The end point for the Power Trip seemed to be Austin v. HHH, but why have them team up in the first place?

Because Austin taped the Mr. Olympia finals for him the week before, and earned HHH's lifelong gratitude as a result.

Steve Austin, cowardly heel

Greetings, Scott.

I wanted to present a topic before you and your loyal Blog of Doom-ites. I'm doming some WWF 2001 reviews for my website (kingsrecaps.wordpress.com in cane you're interested) and naturally I'm talking about the Steve Austin heel-turn that failed. I think one problem that doesn't get pointed out enough was the way it was first presented, and you know how important first impressions are. We've grown used to see Ausitn as the gruff tough-guy, but once the heel turn happened as Wrestlemania, he suddenly had to follow the WWF rulebook which states "All WWF heels must be cowardly". Suddenly Austin's stalling, running from battles, begging off during matches, and the biggest kicker occured on the May 10th Smackdown.

If you remember on that show The Undertaker wet into Austin's lockerroom where his stuff is and waited for him to arrive. So what does Austin do? He whines to Vince McMahon about it. Read that again: Austin whines to Vince. The guy who ususaly beats everyone up is complaining to the authority figure. That's what really killed the heel turn right there.

Anyway I wanted to bring this up for a discusson with your readers. Keep up the good work and all that.

Yeah, there was a lot of problems with the Austin heel turn, and that was among them.  Although the character itself wasn't bad — an insecure Austin who had to turn to his biggest enemy for help because of failing health or mental state was a really clever one.  But they totally changed the guy in too short of a span, and not in a good way.  Having him get mixed up in the Invasion didn't help either.  

Best heel ever

———- Forwarded 

Scott, was listening to "The Place To Be" podcast about WWE 98 and it got me thinking, is Vince McMahon the greatest heel ever?  I went back and watched some of his older stuff and the heat he was getting was fucking NUCLEAR.  He also cut some superb promos and was just always locked in it seems like.  The freaking Patterson and Brisco stuff was fantastic and just topped it off.  I know he didn't wrestle and got a lot of TV time but I can't think of a hotter heel then maybe Hollywood Rock or vintage Flair, but I'd still argue Vince was a hotter heel. Thoughts?

Also, don't know if you ever heard it but Kevin Kelly tells a GREAT story about Vince shitting himself on the way to the ring to cut a promo, having no choice but to stand there with shit dripping down his leg in front of a live crown until the TV segment ended, and then placing his shit soaked underwear on a camera pole in the back and chasing Patterson around with it.

MH – "OfficerFarva"

——————–

I don't think there's any doubt that he's the best of all time.  Austin didn't draw millions of dollars alone, and Vince is still milking that character today for huge returns.  

JR heel turn clip

Hello again Scott, I thought I'd share this moment when JR turned heel
back in '96. I actually thought heel Jim Ross was interesting and it's
too bad they ruined it with the fake Razor and Diesel nonsense. For
those that have never seen it:

http://youtu.be/3jLy1NtcCfA

Boy, the interwebs were losing their SHIT on the Monday before this happened, let me tell ya.  Heel JR was interesting, but also way too far before his time to be a proper outlet for the writers bitching about Vince's dumb ideas.  
Also, Fake Diesel?  Whatever happened to THAT guy?  

Austin Heel Turn in Retrospect

Scott,


With over 11 years of perspective on the Austin heel turn at Wrestlemania 17, what is your take today?  Should they have done the heel turn and just conducted it differently?  Should they have just had him win the belt from Rock as a face and do one more run on top against Angle, Benoit, Jericho, and HHH, then return the face vs. face job to a returning Rock at SummerSlam?  Should they have kept him face and had the Invasion start the next night, with DDP, Booker, et al challenging him?

I think a face Austin made the most sense, given the fact that Rock was leaving for a while and Stone Cold was still the fan favorite.  Rock & Austin could do a respect handshake and beer toast on Raw only to have Shane unleash the WCW guys, 'injuring' Rock til summer and beating down Austin.  You could have a precarious Austin/McMahon tandem brought together against a common enemy despite their disdain for each other.  Team WWF vs. Team WCW at Backlash 2001?  Austin could perhaps face DDP and Booker for a couple PPVs.  Then, when Rock returns in summer, you could have Steve go heel and join the WCW guys just to stick it to Vince and reinforce the DTA thing.  Heel-ish Austin vs. babyface Rock could happen somewhere in there, maybe with Rock leading the WWF against Austin and the WCW guys at Survivor Series.  Maybe Austin vs. Rock vs. HHH at Wrestlemania 18?

Hey!  No sneaky "rebooking the Invasion" questions, buddy. 

The problem was not Austin turning heel.  The problem was Austin turning heel on THAT night in THAT stadium.  Clearly the character was staler than John Cena and needed to shook up, I don't think anyone's arguing against that.  However, they rebuilt him by having him win the Rumble and then beating Rock in his hometown to win the World title, which is all kind of a babyface thing to do.  If they did that as a babyface and then had him go mad with power over the next couple of months and shockingly join the Alliance at the Invasion PPV, then you've got something.  Anything further would be rebooking the Invasion, so I shall say no more.

Punk/Ryback – Cena Heel Turn

Hey Scott,


Would a Cena heel turn on Ryback be a good way to spark some interest in Cena, keep Ryback strong and MAKE him in the process? I mean, obviously nothing is ever set in stone in terms of something getting over, but it just seems that if Cena screwed Ryback and shook hands with Punk and Heyman it would instantly make Ryback the number 1 babyface and could lead to Ryback "hunting" Cena down.

Of course, we've all thought about the Cena heel turn over and over and the odds of it happening are slim to none … but it would be different at least.

Plus, what's the best way to get the crowd to HATE Punk? Put him with a heel Cena. Now the kids hate him AND the marks hate him.

Food for thought.

– Randyback

Holy god dude, they are practically running panic drills because Cena can't make it to the PPV and they have no backup #2 babyface ready, and you think they're gonna turn him HEEL?  Now?  No way, man, if anything they're gonna push Cena even HARDER as a squeaky clean babyface because they think the Earth will fall into the sun if he doesn't main event every PPV, preferably while making Punk look like a doofus.  If anything, they'd turn Ryback heel to set him up for Undertaker, but the Cena turn ain't ever happening.  Sorry.