Yoko’s Face Turn

Was there any way of doing Yokozuna's face turn right?

For a long time he was massively over as a heel until he was put lower and lower down the card. It seems like he could have been turned face and used in a way that wasn't terrible even with his incredibly limited mobility.

I guess they would have ended up releasing him no matter what since he wasn't able (willing?) to lose the weight. Seems like kind of a shame for his WWF career to end like it did considering how good he was as a heel in 1993.
 

​Well, I'd like to once again plug James Dixon's awesome Titan Sinking book, while we're talking about that era:
Tie-in:  I think had Yoko made the commitment to actually lose weight, his new direction as the samoan ass-kicker that was closer to his backstage personality might have worked.  Especially since exactly that sort of character was only a few years away from debuting.  You know, Roman Reigns.  ​

Luger’s WWF run and why it failed as heel and face.

Scott,

In the King Lear rant you wrote (copying and pasting from the Scott Sez version):

"Well, now Hogan was gone and fans needed another reason to care. Want an example of what I mean? Take Bob Holly, for instance. When he started in the WWF, he was called "Sparky" Thurman Plugg, which is a semi-clever play on "STP" and "spark plug". Hah hah, right? But just looking at that gimmick, do you cheer him or boo him? And why?  (You boo him because he’s a dick, although we didn’t know how much of one at that point.)  
It was that "why" that really got to the fans. Because Vince would just keep sticking guys out there with silly names and silly costumes and pretty soon no one cared anymore. Vince produced the evil martial artist Kwang, who didn't get a reaction because he didn't do anything particularly evil. So he repackaged him as the good Caribbean legend Savio Vega, and again he didn't get much of a reaction because he didn't do anything particularly good. Vince, ironically, was the last to "get it". The fans were asking "Why should we boo a plumber? Why should we cheer a garbageman? Why should even bother to care one way or another about Jerry Lawler's evil dentist?" The WWF's answer was basically "Because we told you so" and that's where it all went bad. (Doesn’t THAT sound familiar?) "

You know which guy this point really reminded me of (and yes I know this was a few years before the period you're talking about in the rant)?

This reminded me of Lex Luger's entire WWF run- and largely for the same reasons for both his heel and face runs.

They bring him in as The Narcissist and don't give him any character development beyond "He's a guy who loves to look at himself in the mirror".

He didn't do anything particularly bad, and didn't really get any mic time to build himself up as any kind of character. He just posed a lot in front of his mirror and knocked guys out with his STEEL FOREARM OF DESTRUCTION AND EXTREME UNCOMFORT!

How is that supposed to make me want to boo the guy? If I had the abs of Lex Luger circa 1992 I'd probably be kind of narcissistic, too!

Okay, so obviously that gimmick wasn't getting him any heel heat, so with Hogan gone they hit the panic button and abruptly (very abruptly!) turned him face, had him slam Yokozuna, and stick him on a bus to kiss hands and shake babies in an attempt to make him Hulk Hogan 2.0.

And that ultimately failed too, because for all the effort they put into pushing him (at least this time he got over to some degree) they again didn't do anything to develop him as a character or give him any kind of reason for kids (or anyone) to particularly give a damn about him beyond the fact that he loves MURICA instead of himself now.

So they stuck him in a heatless mid card tag-team with another guy who wasn't able to get over.

The difference between Hulk Hogan and Lex Luger was that Hulk Hogan had character and charisma, and could make a 12 year old really believe in him and care about whatever feud he happened to be in at the time.

Yes, the fact that they booked Luger to win SummerSlam 1993 against Yokozuna by count out (?) didn't help him any, but even a world title run wouldn't have saved the gimmick.

I'm not sure I agree 100% with your detective work there, Lou. I think Luger's big push was working just fine once they focused on the Made in the USA aspect and gave him the bus and everything, but it was specifically building to him winning the World title and once he failed at that everything else became aimless.  You can say a lot of things against the gimmick in hindsight, but at the time this wasn't a Daniel Bryan situation where there was someone else fans were screaming to be champion more than Luger.  Yeah, that became Bret Hart later on, but people were more than ready for Luger to win that belt and accept him as champion.  

RF Video Face Off Volume 11: Big Lips and Shaking Hips with Missy Hyatt and the Honky Tonk Man

This was filmed in 2010

The interview was conducted by Rob Feinstein

It runs for one hour and forty-five minutes long.

The interview starts with Missy asking Honky what wrestling he watched before getting into the business. Honky said he watched Nick Gulas’ Memphis Territory and believed all of what they were selling in regards to diamond rings and limousines. Missy asked him about Gulas’ payoffs as Honky said it depends who it is as he talks about how Vince was the same way and that TNA does it as well. Honky then talks about Vince killing the business and how today the underneath guys in TNA are killing it too as they are basically working for free as Missy chimes in on how you have to do that when you are breaking into the business.

Both of them shoot the breeze as they talk about nepotism in wrestling with Honky telling Missy she could be the next Dixie Carter if her daddy owned a wrestling company as Missy jokes that she couldn’t because she has a brain.

On Jerry Lawler and Jerry Jarrett breaking away from Gulas to open their own territory, Honky said that they took the guys with them as they offered more money then when Jim Barnett offered more he took those guys from Jarrett and Lawler.

They talk some more about Memphis as Honky mentions all of the guys who sleep with “rats” while married and would get pissed if you mentioned how many they had slept with as Missy said Eddie Gilbert told her that you could always tell how well Memphis was doing by the quality and amount of the rats that would hang out at the arenas. Honky puts over Phil Hickerson as being a great worker and talker and was one tough guy as he would fight for the fun of it, like David Schultz. He was asked about Hogan in Memphis as Honky said he was just breaking in at the time but could tell even then he had it and joked how the saw the “money dripping off of him.”

Honky and Missy joke around as Honky tells Missy she wasn’t green in the WWF as Jake Roberts “broke her in” as Missy then says it was the other way around. Missy then talks about how she got H-Bombed and did not find out until years later as they then talk about Sam Houston and about what happened to him as they learn he was in jail.

Missy asks Honky about working in Calgary. Honky first does a killer Stu Hart impression then talks about how he bought his “green gimmick” from Smith Hart and how he never messed with cocaine. He said that Bruce Hart would have all sorts of wacky stories about why he did not like different Nationalities. Honky also said that Stu told him that Bruce thought he was “Roman Polanski” and would hang around young girls. Missy then jokes that she was going to ask Bret Hart for his sperm because with her brains and looks and his wrestling abilities they would have a child that could rule the world.

On the Dynamite Kid and if he was a mean-spirited ribber, Honky said that Dynamite would prey on the weak and would do anything if he got away with it until Jacques Rougeau paid him back. Honky said that Dynamite terrorized Terry Taylor. Honky talks about how Dynamite beat himself up by wrestling in Japan and by the late 80’s all of the pain he was undergoing made him angry.

Honky is then asked if he is mad about other wrestlers using his gimmicks as he said that everyone in wresting borrows from everyone then talks about how Jake Roberts created the 3:16 gimmick. Missy then adds in a story about Jake as he introduced her boyfriend to him a few years ago and Jake went up to him and shook his balls, saying “nice to meet you.”

Feinstein then asks them what wrestling marriages were doomed for failure and which ones surprised you by ending in divorce. Honky jokes that his own marriage lasting surprised him the most, which has lasted for 27 years. Honky then talks about how it is not the business that causes the divorce but that when someone decides to switch from their regular life to that of a wrestler they go into a whole new lifestyle. Honky was shocked that Elizabeth and Savage divorced. They then try to figure out if Flair’s newest wife is his 4th or 5th marriage.

They both talk about TNA trying to compete with the WWE on Monday Nights and how they never had a product to compete with the WWE. Honky says why would TNA expect to draw a lot of people on Monday when they draw 400 fans at their house shows. Missy then tells Dixie Carter to think about each segment on Impact and how will it get people to come to the shows or buy the PPV’s as she wonders how TNA makes money. Honky then laughs at the notion of Vince Russo changing the wrestling business then questions the decision of running a strip poker segment on TNA’s first Monday Night show and how that was a waste of time. They talk about how they have talent but the production is awful and Honky thinks they should fire all of the non-wrestling guys in the back. Honky says TNA is WCW all over again as they are just throwing money away.

Honky is asked about the incident between Matt Borne and Jim Duggan. Honky says he does not know all of the details but the promoter never should have booked two seasoned vets together as they would not cooperate then talks about how no one should ever get into a fight over this “stupid business” as Missy makes fun of guys crying about having to put other people over.

When asked if it is tough to make money at their age on the Independent scene, Honky said that a lot of guys that get cut from the WWE are usually gobbled up quick but that he always reinvents himself and starts to do comic book conventions and car shows along with a rock & roll wrestling tour he is working on at the moment.

He is asked what happened to his Gatorade bottle (Honky was famous for drinking hard booze with the Gatorade) as Honky said he has not had any hard liquor in two years and will only have a few beers here and there as Missy added that she has not had anything in four years. Honky said he was drinking just to pass time on the road and waiting for shows.

Missy talks about Chris Kanyon and his suicide. She feels bad for saying a lot of mean things about him during a shoot interview that they filmed together that had not been released yet. Missy then talks about how he could have had better options for him rather than suicide, even discussing that Kanyon himself in that interview talked about how he had mentioned that he would kill himself all of the time.

Feinstein then asks them what would they tell Dixie Carter if they had a meeting with her. Honky said he would tell her to find something else to do as Missy reiterates about asking Dixie to look at each segment and figure out how will it make her money or get fans to buy the shows and PPV’s. Missy then says it is a business to make money as Honky questions why wouldn’t you go out an hire a PR firm that knows how to market if you have all of that money and why you would continue to keep the same people around that have no idea what they are doing. They then talk about how they are never going to go after the WWE but can make money by being an alternative.

On their favorites to watch, Honky loved watching the Funks and Harley Race. He also loved hearing King Curtis on interviews. Honky also talks about how he never cared that much about how athletic someone might be or how they looked. Missy talks about Tommy Rich and how hot he was in 1981, saying that he could talk the pants off of the girls.

Honky says he does not follow the product much today but thinks that Randy Orton should be pushed more and that he likes Ted DiBiase Jr. Missy talks about all of the guys in the WWE looking the same with similar tattoos. Honky then talks about how the guest shows are not helping anything and that picking fights with the hosts and announcers will not sell tickets, just the fights between the wrestlers.

About the drug scene and if it was a lot more prevalent when they were in the major companies as compared to today, Honky thinks it is the same as guys can do what they want in the privacy of their own home that you would never know about. Honky said he was unaware of the cocaine problems in the WWF when he was there as he was at the bar of out getting food and not with those guys.

Missy talks about Mickie James and the incident in which her nude photos were posted all over the locker room and how in any other TV company that would constitute as sexual harassment and she could easily file a lawsuit.

On the Iron Sheik and how he is still alive, Honky said its amazing how he is still alive after all of the abuse he has brought on himself mentally and physically, citing the fact that he must have tremendous genes as Missy jokes how he would survive a nuclear bomb.

Honky is asked about the WWE letting Jim Ross go as Honky says that Ross has some sour grapes going on as after all they did to him he is shocked they let him go, noting how Ross also stabbed a lot of people in the back while working for the WWE. Missy adds that Ross is still the best announcer and was a mentor to her in Mid South. Honky then talks about his job in talent relations and how the people who take that position believe they are bigger than the job and says that a certain type of person takes a job that requires you to fire someone for really no reason as Missy talks about the WWE not giving young guys a chance.

When asked if you can still be innovative in wrestling today, Missy said yes and that you have to keep up with the times as wrestling has been on television since the 1950’s and will be for years to come as the business goes through lulls. Honky cites a seminar from JBL on how he told perspective wrestlers to stand out from the crowd.

On whether or not MMA will hurt the wrestling business, Missy says no as people watch wrestling for the storylines and not the fights. Honky adds that MMA is different as their merchandise and action figures are not big sellers as a majority of their fans are adults and not children like in wrestling. Honky says that Brock Lesnar will succeed in MMA as he is a character and will be there long if he stays healthy.

When asked about the silliest gimmicks they have seen, Honky says the Gobbledy Gooker as Missy said it was cool and would play that if asked. Missy said the Ding Dongs was the silliest she has seen.

Missy said that the reason crowds are down for Independent shows is due to the fact that they only advertise on the internet as Honky adds that they do a poor job of getting the word out to the fans as sometimes they do not even know you are in town.

They close with being asked about their legacy as Honky talks about he will be remembered for being controversial and most do not know he had a career before going to the WWF as they both joke about how they lived longer than they thought they would.

Final Thoughts: Not a bad interview at all but with these two as the subjects you’d expect a little more in terms of crazy stories. They showed a lot of insight here, especially Missy (which might shock you if not familiar with her on Twitter or past interviews. Her Twitter account is very insightful in terms of wrestling), and there were some funny parts but these two were relatively mild throughout the interview.

But more importantly, these two have settled down and no longer abuse their bodies like they did in the past. Nice to see them both sober after some struggles. And they both seemed in good spirits and in health here too.

A lot of the content here was in regards to Honky’s early career, which had Missy asking him all sorts of questions and about TNA’s attempt to recreate the Monday Night War (Which was shortly before this was filmed).

I found this to be a solid interview but if you are not interested into their opinions and insights into the above and expected to hear crazy road stories, then I would not recommend this as you would probably be bored, especially at the beginning.

You can purchase the DVD of this shoot for $20 at RFVideo.com or purchase the digital download to own at Highspots.com for $9.99 by clicking on the links below:

http://www.rfvideo.com/faceoffvol11-biglipsandshakinghips.aspx

http://www.highspots.com/p/VD_face_off_11_honky_missy.html

And congratulations to poster The Cooler, who won the BoD March Madness Pool. As part of the prize, he gets to choose the next 4 shoot interviews that I recap. So next week, I will review the 1986 WWE Timeline as told by George Steele.

Here is my schedule for the next several days:

Friday: WWF Wrestling Challenge 5/10/87
Sunday: WWF Superstars of Wrestling 5/16/87
Tuesday: WWF Wrestling Challenge 5/17/87
Thursday: 1986 WWE Timeline as told by George Steele

Sudden face turns that stuck + BoD Fantasy Baseball plug


My name is BonzaiDBSM. I'm a top-5 commentator and a three-time BoD fantasy sports champion AND YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT!

Over the last couple of weeks, we've all touched on our displeasure on endless Authority/heel authority figure angles, and it made me think about how I miss Teddy Long running the ship on SD (back when I actually watched SD, unlike now), because how refreshing when an authority guy comes out to make a logical match to benefit the show and its fans (usually in the form of a TAG TEAM MATCH PLAYA) and not just screwing over a face for the zillionith time. 

But it also made me think about Teddy Long, who played that persona for about a decade, which was amusing because he was just randomly turned. He spent all of 2003 as the black-power heel manager, with Rodney Mack (remember the "White Boy Challenge"?), Jazz, and Mark Henry, went off TV when his guys were injured or released, then pops up on SmackDown in the summer of 04 to relieve GM Kurt Angle of his duties in his now-familiar HOLLA HOLLA GM role. What would you and the other BoDers say were the more notable random, overnight face turns for previous heels that stuck for a long time?

Also, could I get a plug for year 2 of the BoD Fantasy Baseball League? I've sent out e-mails to most of last year's participants (mainly the ones who were active all season) but have room for at least 2 more. I can go into more detail in the comment thread for those interested, but was hoping you could get the word out with a post.

​Done.  
As for overnight babyface turns, Sting's initial turn in 87 was pretty sudden and stuck for 30 years.  Randy Savage in 87 was also a case of "One day he started fighting One Man Gang on Hogan's behalf".  ​

Bam Bam as a face in 95

Hi Scott,

What was the deal with the Bam Bam face turn in 1995? I know he didn't get along with the Kliq and they supposedly turfed him out of the fed that fall, but did Vince have bigger plans for him that he was talked out of? Seems weird he'd put him in the main event of WM (as a heel, but the match set up the face turn) and the main event of KOTR if he was just going to give up on him shortly thereafter.
Titan Sinking!  Read it and love it!
Yes, Vince had bigger plans for Bam Bam, and made grand promises of being the #1 babyface and a big Summerslam payoff with a main event tag match featuring Bam Bam & LT against the Corporation.  And then Wrestlemania bombed and he quickly lost faith in Bam Bam (no thanks to the Clique bitching about him) and shit happened.  ​I don't know that Bam Bam could have pulled off that position anyway, but the booking did him absolutely no favors either way.  

The Foundation Face Turn


Hi Scott,


Was there a direct storyline reason for the Hart Foundation's original face turn?  I remember it essentially happening as Bret sending Jimmy to the back before a singles match on Superstars, and I guess that Bret had been a bit face-y since the battle royal, but I can't recall if there was a specific incident or tease of the split prior to that.

Well the main impetus was the battle royal that opened WM4, where Bad News turned on him, but the main turn came because Jimmy Hart started two-timing them by managing the Rougeau Brothers as well and then turned around and sold the Harts' contracts to the Rougeaus.  The turn was gradual leading up to that, with Bret doing singles matches and wrestling more as a babyface, specifically against Bad News.  

Face Ryback


Ryback's return as a face last night got me thinking of a Royal Rumble spot they just HAVE to do this year(should have done it 2 years ago).  They need to give Ryback the '1994 Diesel' spot.  Have him come out at #10, clear the ring and as he's alone waiting and the countdown clock is winding down, he leads the crowd in a 'FEED ME MORE' chant.  Do this 3 times.  Feed him an Uso, a Matador, Heath Slater and then have a guy like Ambrose or Rusev come out to finally end it(anyone but Triple H).  I think that would be an awesome moment and it would really get the crowd into the match.  Not only that, it would put Ryback over huge.  I'm not saying Ryback should win the Rumble but that spot just has to happen.  That 'feed me more' chant is just made for that 'Diesel' spot in the Rumble.  Your thoughts?

That assumes a lot more thought and caring into the Ryback character than the creative team has put into him.  But yeah, there's a lot of fun spots they could do with him assuming he doesn't get injured again or say something really stupid on Twitter and get fired.  

Randy Orton: Face Of The Company

Just to expand on something in the comments from RAW thread:

What’s amazing is like you said, why haven’t they done ANYTHING with the “face of the company” gimmick? Instead of being HHH/Steph’s chew toy, Orton could have actually been an interesting heel character. Show videos of him being the “face of the company” at public events and being hated— photo ops with kids who can’t stand him, being obnoxious on local TV appearances, stuff like that. Have him come out and review his latest Randy Orton merchandise, or berate interns because his locker room didn’t have enough fresh cut flowers,. Give him a lackey to carry a mirror so Orton can look at himself as he comes down the ring. Bring a fan in the ring because Randy wants to let the commoner worship the face of the company. There’s a million ways you could go with Orton as the pompous champion who prides himself as being the most popular person in WWE when obviously he’s not.

I don’t know if you watch NXT or not, but this is an exact description of the Bo Dallas character and his Honky Tonk Man 2014 deal.  And although it’s fun for the most part, it does NOT work for the guy who is supposed to be the champion, and it’s not going to work for Bo when he gets called up.  They’ve really booked themselves into a corner with Bo and this deal, because once he loses that belt the character is dead in the water and really Bo is LONG past the point where the joke has been beaten into the ground as it is.  Orton might be able to make it work, but it’s not translating to Dallas as a top guy, I’ll say that. 

RF Video Face Off with Honky Tonk Man and Raven

This interview was filmed in the beginning of 2007. It runs at two hours and twenty seven minutes long. This was the first installment of the “Face Off” series.

The interview starts with a graphic honoring Doug Gentry, who passed away prior to this filming. Gentry worked for RF Video and was responsible for filming the ECW FanCam footage

The interview starts with the food delivery arriving and the first few minutes are disorganized as the give the delivery guy instructions.


Raven asks Honky about him refusing to drop the Intercontinental Title and everything else that happened afterwards as a result. Honky said that Vince was worried because he already spoke with Jim Barnett of the NWA, who told him to not drop the belt on TV. He said he and Randy never had a problem over what happened, as he understood it was business, then said that Randy actually thanked him at one point due to receiving the World Heavyweight Title as a result. Honky goes through what was told to him after he got word from the office they wanted him to drop the belt, stating that he was told he was getting “rebuilt,” which he believed was back to the opening matches against guys like Lanny Poffo, S.D. Jones, and Pedro Morales and how that would greatly lower his income as he was just starting to make money when he was selling out the “B” shows. He confirms that DiBiase was promised the World Heavyweight Title and a feud with Hogan. He then says how he went to Vince and asked him to keep him strong on TV for a while and give him a chance to get over and make a little bit of money and if he failed, he would gladly do whatever Vince wanted.

Still on this topic, Raven goes into how back then, they had job guys to put over the stars and that the stars never did the job clean on TV and would wrestle the other stars at house shows and make money that way, which is not the case today. Honky adds that the contracts were not guaranteed then like they are today. He also says that back then, there were other places to go work unlike today. Honky also states that Vince respected him for standing up for himself.

Honky is asked by Raven about his costumes. He tells him that the ones he uses for independents is $3,500 and the one for special occasions and signings was $10,000. Honky talks about how the guys today all look cookie-cutter but that people recognize him due to his costume. He brings up how he talked to Jimmy Hart a few days ago and how the red and yellow color scheme always draws attention and was first used by Barnum and Bailey Circus before Hulk Hogan, adding that those colors always works. Raven talks about young guys not wanting to spend money on their look yet wait around for the office to give them a push. They both say how you will not make it if you do not try to set yourself apart from everyone else.

Honky talks about going to the WCW Powerplant when that was running and how all the young guys were sleeping on the floor instead of watching matches ot listening to advice. He goes on about how he drove 400 miles in a small car with other guys when he first started and did not get guaranteed money or even get plane fare to a training school. Raven says that Steve Keirn gave him the best advice when he first started and that was watch as much wrestling as you can. He then adds that you can do as many moves as you want but it doesnt mean shit if you cant sell tickets. Honky said that he asked Johnny Rodz if any of he guys he trained ever come back to train and he said no one does as soon as they get their first booking. Honky said when he first started, he would book himself on the weekends and go back and train twice a week for about nine months. Raven said you have to eat, sleep, and breath wrestling to make it and if you want to be a star or do flips, join the Cirque de Soleil. They then laugh at guys who think Hogan and Lawler cannot work because they do not use highspots in their matches.

They now talk about working the crowd. Honky said that Col. DeBeers told him if they yell boring, take it down a notch as if they are responding, they are paying attention.

Honky is asked about the hardcore stuff they did in Memphis. He said that it was controlled hardcore back then and he worked with guys that he had good chemistry with. Raven said when he got to ECW, Heyman thought that faces and heels were a thing of the past but he said it made it difficult to build a match so he decided to be a heel anway. He told other wrestlers in the company that he was only doing one chair shot in his match and some of them would complain about how others were doing ten at a time and Raven’s response was that it doesnt matter what they did as in his match, he can sell one fine. Honky recalls watching a RVD/Sabu match once that contained at least 25 chairshots. Raven also compares to the cruiser matches of today and how they do not sell. He says that today, many guys either no sell or act like they are dead, with nothing in between. Honky goes back to the ECW match he saw and said that he likes both guys and that was how ECW was structured. Raven said that he did less than others, partly due to laziness and drug addiction, but also because he wanted to build drama. Honky says that he tells the guys breaking in today that if you lose control, then the crowd and the match is lost.

Still on the subject, Honky hates table spots due to the lack of control as you have no idea if the table will cut you. Raven said you can have a feel of what you are doing after a while and that is why he uses an elbow drop, instead of a flippy-move that you have no control over. Honky said that a powerbomb through a table is something he hates as when you are taking the move, you have no idea where you are going. He then says that wrestling is entertainment and athletics, not stuntman routines. Raven says that he tells the young guys that he wants to wrestle until he is 50 years old and that the guys he was with in TNA four years ago who did all highspots are now starting to take it down a few notches as they are already beat up. Honky brings up Mick Foley and how after falling off the top of the cage, there was nothing left to do. Raven adds that the fact he was a good talker is what kept him relevant after that.

Raven talks about the Japanese style of working stiff and says that he showed one of his friends a tape of the work and wasn’t impressed at all, stating that he could it a guy for real if he wanted to and that there was no skill in working stiff. Raven adds that the real skill is making it look realistic while not hurting yourself or your opponent. Honky says that he cannot sell an actual punch the same as a worked punch.

They now talk about facial expressions and body movement and how the guys today really lack those skills. Honky said that he learned to use body movement to sell when he worked under a mask at the beginning of his career and when his hair grew out, he could jerk his head and have his hair move around. Honky adds that Bret Hart was able to overcome his complete lack of facial expression because his body movement was excellent. Honky talks about three guys who completely lacked animation: Lex Luger, Ultimate Warrior, and Tom Magee. Honky talks about Magee and how he was supposed to be the next Hogan and was 6’7 300lbs and do backflips off the top rope. Raven asks how come they didnt stick with him and Honky said that he had no lateral movement at all and couldnt even sell anything. Raven then tells a story about how he had to work with Bill Goldberg in WCW and that Goldberg told him he wasnt going to sell anything.

The above discussion about Goldberg leads into a rant on Bret Hart by Honky. He brings up how Hart said in an interview that he didnt like working with him because he was “too soft” in the ring. Honky then tells Bret who would he rather work with for the next five years, him or Goldberg, who kicked him in the head and put him out of the business. For a more profane and animated version of this rant, check out Honky’s First YouShoot DVD. Honky adds that Hart and Flair worked the same match every night then Raven laughs about the fact that Hart accused Flair of working the same match every night when he did the exact same thing.

They now talk about Flair. Raven said that Flair dissed him while he was in WCW. Honky brings up Flair’s book and how he said that he wouldnt have been a main event talent if it wasn’t for Hogan. Honky adds that he was in main events before going to the WWF and added that Arn Anderson wouldn’t have amounted to “dog shit” if it wasn’t for Flair and that his head was shoved so far up his ass that he was surprised he could even breath.

They now talk about friends in the business as Honky adds that all the stars had their own versions of Brutus Beefcake. Raven says that you want to get your friends jobs but only build them up to their skill level and not to promote them further than that. Honky said that was how you got to get jobs in other territories back in the day. He said guys like the Bushwhackers and Joe LeDuc would help him out. Raven said that he always tries to get his friends like Sandman, Disco Inferno, and Johnny Swinger jobs but that no one else wants to do that today. He recalls a story about Edge, who he was very close with in the WWF, asked him to go to the office and help him out for a program or to take a look at as he was getting jobbed out, but he refused. Raven also brings up that Edge did the same thing to Johnny Swinger, who was the best man at his first wedding during his time in the WWE. Raven doesnt get why people do not want to help there friends and asks how fucking selfish can you be. Honky believes the friendships died when the territories did as you would go to the WWF and guys you worked with for years wouldnt talk to you anymore. Then after that, the greed really started to set in and everyone stopped looking out for each other. Raven jokes about how Disco never thanked him for creating his gimmick and he is one of his best friends.

Honky talks about getting into the ring with younger guys on the independents and that most of them are a bit nervous and some of them do not realize who he is but a lot of them screw up in the ring. Honky recalls that when he first started out, he wrestled against Lou Thesz and got the shit kicked out of him and that he deserved it as he kept screwing up but that was how you learned. He then adds how guys with nine total matches will approach him about wanting to do certain spots and how hat boggles his mind. Raven talks about how guys on the indies will say that they have been working for three years but when you ask them ho wmany matches they have had they say ten. This leads to a discussion about Taz, who yells at guys for not paying their dues constantly, yet Raven says that Taz spent one day in Memphis and quit and worked just a few matches in a four-year span. Honky adds that Taz used to tote around Kevin Sullivan’s bags then Raven tells a story of how Taz had an orgasm in the ring after being on the receiving end of a German suplex by Sullivan. Honky finishes by saying you no longer ask someone how long they have been in the business but rather how many matches they have had.

Raven talks about when he was relegated to “Sunday Night Heat” that the jobbers he would work with who claim that they could do all sorts of stuff and he would have them punch and kick each other in the ring and 9-out-of-10 could not do anything. Honky said that when he first started, he would get the VHS tapes of his matches and watch them all night to improve on what he was doing incorrectly.

They now talk about wrestling schools and how they are no being run by guys with very little experience. Raven said that he trained at Larry Sharpe’s school, who was a nobody in wrestling, but was mostly trained by Charlie Fulton, who was a solid worker for many years. Raven said that they guys who train the students there now are those who wrestled several TV squashes in the WWF and that is their qualification.

Raven brings up the Disco Inferno again and how he always wanted to be the Honky Tonk Man. Honky said that he met Disco once then again a few years later and Disco did not recall meeting him that first time. Raven talks about how he got Disco his first break when he was in Memphis and Jerry Lawler asked him what his gimmick was and he said that it was the Disco Inferno. Raven said that he took it from a guy in Calgary who wrestled with a disco gimmick. Raven asks Honky if it means something to him that he was a reason that a wrestler got into the business. Honky said that it does because you impacted the life of someone. Honky then said that people want to be the next Rock but that he did not last in the business long enough as he found another way to make millions of dollars.

Back from a break, Raven asks Honky about the Hall of Fame. He says that it is an honor in the sense that there are a lot of great names associated with the award but that he does not want to sign over all of his rights with to the WWE (control of his character), which will not let him continue to earn on the independents. Honky adds that if they are going to let Mike Rotundo be an agent and have Barry Windham on payroll, at least let him sweep the floors.

Now, Raven has the list of the 101 dirtiest rumors in wrestling, a popular list. He and Honky go through some of the rumors. I will list the rumors and post their thoughts:

Kevin Sullivan spends his vacations at a nudist colony. Take that image through
the day.


Honky thinks it could be true then recalls how he teamed with him in Atlanta before Ole Anderson fired him.

Tommy Rich did some favors for Jim Barnett in exchange for the NWA World Title

Honky believes that is false, as he knows Rich. He then recalls how he was one of the most recognizable wrestlers on television before Hulk Hogan came around. This then leads to Honky talking about the Fuller’s who gave him some payoffs in pot. Raven said that he heard rumors about them giving the boys “powder payoffs.” Now, Raven, asks Honky about Robert Fuller having a huge cock, which Honky confirms and jokes that they called it the “gutwrench” and doesnt understand why he didnt go into porn.

NWA World Champion Gene Kiniski bought Kevin Von Erich a hooker in Las Vegas,
when Kevin was TWELVE.


Honky thinks it could be true as he was Canadian and they are not as uptight about sex as American’s.

A coked up Kerry and Kevin were once playing with a saw blade in the back
hallways at the sportatorium. Kerry saw a cat, so he threw the saw blade at the
cat, killing it.


Honky said it could be true then praises Kerry for being a great guy but that he was unable to read the cue cards for the house show promos in the WWF.

R&R Express walk in on Jimmy Valiant laying on the floor jerking off under a
glass table that a hooker is shitting on. Ricky throws up and leaves, while
Robert stays to watch.


Raven says that it sounds entirely plausible but Honky can’t see Ricky leaving the room in that situation.

Dusty Rhodes got Baby Doll fired (or something) because he was pissed that she
married near-jobber Sam Houston instead of him.


This leads to a discussion of how the business has changed with the women as they used to get in the business to be with the boys and now they get in to wrestle. Raven also adds how back then, the women used to get with the main eventers but now they are with the undercard guys.

Manny Fernandez took a dump in “Number One” Paul Jones brand-new Stetson hat,
put it back in the hat box on the airplane, like nothing happened, and went to
sit back by Jones for the remainder of the flight.


Honky said it sounds true as Manny would do just about anything.

Raven got caught in a hotel room with Becky Bayless at age 14, and Becky slept
with Joel Gertner and his wife.


Raven said that she was in the room but nothing happened because he knew she was underaged and he was interrogated by the police and let go as they even knew that nothing happened. What went on was that he was two other adult woman and they slept together and they left in the morning and when the cops came into the room, Raven was naked in the bed and Becky was in the room. Raven then added that Mikey Whipwreck told Heyman that Raven got arrested. Honky joked that Raven really did work for Lawler.

Rip Rogers pulled Barry Windham’s keys out of a commode filled with shit and
Jack Daniels after a particularly hard night of partying with his bare hands.


Raven said that sounds true and that Windham was known for having the spray shits. Honky said that Rip would do just about anything for money. Rip said that he never drank or did drugs but would do stuff for money.


Johnny Valentine would take a dump and strategically place it where it couldn’t
be found easily like the inside of bed posts.


Both guys talk about the stories they heard of Valentine being vicious in his pranks. Honky then tells a story of his son Greg and how one day he saw Greg piss in the ice machine at a hotel and to this day, he will never use or even allow his kids to use those machines.


Shawn Michaels supposedly invited three hot girls back to his hotel room. He
told them to all get naked and get on their knees. He whips out his ding dong
and the girls figure it’s going to be a suck-fest, but instead he proceeds to
take a piss in each of their mouths.


Honky said that sounded like something that Marty Jannetty would have done. This leads to the guys telling a few stories about Marty. Raven tells one of how a girl moved into his house and started to get her mail sent there and when Marty tried to kick her out but the judge ruled that since her mail was being sent there, she had a right to stay and Marty basically got kicked out of his own house. Honky then tells a story of how he was with Marty in Scotland a few years ago, just a few days after he was baptized by Shawn Michaels. Honky got a bottle of Bell’s Whiskey and Marty was telling him how he was clean and getting back in the WWE. Honky had the bottle and asked Marty if he wanted a hit and he declined. At 3am, Honky heard a knock on the door and it was Marty, asking for a taste of the whiskey. Honky gave him a good sized glass and Marty left then came back five minutes later. The next day, Marty asked for something for his back and Honky gave him some codeine. Marty asked him how many to take, Honky told him if you are not drinking, you can take 2-3. Marty asked him a few hours later if he should take more and Honky said as long as you are not drinking then Marty took four more. Marty then asked for some whiskey and Honky said that it was not a good idea but Marty drank it anyway. They get to the show and Marty is puking out of the car then goes in the arena and has the match. That night, Honky heard another knock on the door and it was Marty and again he was asking for some whiskey. Honky says that he loves Marty and that we all have our problems.

Raven asks Honky if he thinks people have really found religion. Raven said that Terry Taylor has but Honky is weary of that, stating that he is still stabbing people in the back. Honky said that Greg Valentine told him he has found religion and has stopped lying and double-booking himself. Honky talks about Ted DiBiase and how he was full of shit for calling Vince McMahon the devil then going back to work for him. Honky then jokes about Ted fucking a preacher’s wife.


Apparently after Lawler first arrived in the good old WWF a lot of people
disliked him for his general arrogant attitude. Hall, Nash, and Michaels didn’t
take to this too well, so at one of the Royal Rumbles, Lawler left his crown in
the dressing room to do the Rumble. So the Kliq decided to shit in his crown.
But apparently this wasn’t like a couple of turds in the crown. They apparently
filled King’s precious crown to the brim with a nice, hearty Kilq shit.


Honky said that he heard a rumor that is was someone who is now an agent in the WWE and got fucked over on payoffs from Lawler in Memphis. He didnt want to say who it was as he didnt know it to be 100%. He said it was not someone from the Kliq.

The guys now talk about Bam Bam Bigelow, who passed away shortly before this interview. Honky said he was agile and could work like a big man, unlike Vader who wanted to work like a cruiserweight. Raven also talks about Kamala and the One Man Gang being great big men too, as they could sway back and forth and not fall down.

TAKA fucked Sunny while Candido watched.

Both guys praise Chris for being a great guy. Honky said he was the most forgiving person and Raven adds how he was very caring and how it was a shame that he died of a ring injury after he got his life back in order. Honky then adds that sometimes, nice guys die first and that Jake Roberts, Jim Neidhart, and Kevin Von Erich will probably live forever.

Jushin Liger likes to loan out his wife to folks like Sasuke, TAKA, and
Hayabusa. He may also like to watch.


Neither guy has a clue but Honky tells a story of how he saw a Japanese Porn of a guy tied up and a bunch of girls lined up in a row to kick him in the nuts. He said that he sent it to Dory Funk as a joke. He then says that the Bushwhackers send him a lot of porn. Raven talks about how Japan censors penetration in their films.

Mike Rapada paid $25,000 to win the NWA belt.

Neither guy has a clue if this is true or not but it leads into a discussion about how others were rumored to have done this sort of stuff in the past. Raven brings up the rumor that Magnum TA’s other took a mortage out on their home for him to get the NWA belt in the 1980’s. Honky then says he would give Vince money today to be the world champ as long as he got half of what he made. Honky then talks about the money Hogan made in the 1980’s saying that he wrestled nine times a week and usually made about $20,000 plus more for the big shows and for his merchandise sales and says that adds up to over $200,000 a week. He says that people do not believe him when he talks about the money Hogan made but it was true and that gys like Austin and Rock do not even compare. Raven asks if Hogan should have gone to bat for the other wrestlers to unionize and get healthcare but Honky said there was no reason to risk his payday. Honky said that there should have been a profit sharing system if you have been there for a certain amount of time then Raven joked that Vince  would probably fire you a month before that was to happen.

Curt Hennig was supposedly one of those that shit in Lawler’s crown.

Honky said no but that Hennig did shit in the bag of Chief Jay Strongbow’s son (Mark Young). Raven tells a story of how Hennig was a puppet master and when the 1-2-3 Kid came in, Hennig saved his eyebrows and blamed it on the Smoking Gunns so the Kid put super glue in their cowboy hats then the Gunns gave him a receipt.


Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissey describes seeing Andre screwing – “like a lion raping a
rabbit”.


Raven said that Buddy Rose was proud of the fact that Andre once shoved his thumb up his ass.

Raven did not wear clothes backstage in TNA until someone complained that Dixie Carter would see his horsecock.

Raven said that was true. Honky then goes on and says that the locker room should be the sanctuary for the boys. He then says in the WWF, when Sable and Sunny would have their catfights, they would get separate locker rooms and they would all have to dress in the hallway if there were only two locker rooms in the arena and they couldnt change when they were out in the hallway. They both talk about how they hate when people bring their friends and family into the locker room when they are trying to get dressed. Raven says that he was working for 3PW and Jasmin St. Claire would complain that he would walk around naked. Honky tells a story about how Virgil was their with Jasmin in the locker room and told Honky he couldnt get dressed as she was in the room. Honky told him that she got gang-banged on film and Virgil started to take off his clothes. Raven tells a story of how Colonel DeBeers would pretend he was gay in the locker room towards Rex King, who was very homphobic and would chase him around naked.

Raven talks about locker rooms in ECW and how women and men shared the rooms and they didnt have any showers so he would just wash himself in the sink. Honky said that they treated the women wrestlers like their sisters back then and would turn around when they got dressed.

According to a referee who was released from the WWF, Bradshaw tied up a
wrestler in the shower while he was naked and rubbed baby oil all over him
threatening to rape him until he cried while the lockerroom looked on and
laughed. I think the victim might have date-raped a girl, or may have just not
been well-liked. It was never specified who the victim was other than this
happened in like ’98 or ’99 and the guy was a fairly well known wrestler, I also
heard it might have been Brian Christopher aka Grandmaster Sexay.

Raven said this was true and it was in fact, Brian Christopher. Raven also said that Christopher was screaming that “Guys don’t do this to other guys” as Honky wants to know how come Bradshaw hasnt done that to Jerry Lawler.

Remember when David Flair quit IWA Puerto Rico due to unfit living conditions?
And everybody ragged on him when they found out IWA had put him up in a nice
house? Well, that nice house belonged to Victor Quiones. I shouldn’t have to say
anymore, but I will. David was sleeping one night and was woken up by Quiones
standing over him about to blow a load on his face. David quit the next day.


Neither guy has a clue but they are reminded that Ric Flair tried to go after Quiones and this prompts Honky to talk about going after someone in front of a bunch of people is not the way to go and that you should take the person aside and try to work out the problem. Raven asks about Koko B. Ware going after someone once and Honky talks about he came after Hacksaw Duggan with a nip once as Duggan slapped it away from him and said get the fuck away from him. Raven tells a story of how Billy Jack Haynes almost killed him once in Portland after Art Barr blamed him for a rib that he pulled. They talk about Jericho taking down Goldberg as Raven says that Jericho has that “Canadian retard strength.” Honky again stresses that you do no to this in front of everyone and work it out on the side.

They now talk about the Dynamite Kid/Jacques Rougeau incident. Honky says that Dynamite broke Jacques jaw after punching him while he was sitting down playing cards. He said that when Dynamite got hit, everyone was saying how he was holding two cups of coffee and couldnt defend himself but they add how neither could Jacques when he was sitting down holding cards. Honky then goes on about how Dynamite claimed in his book that he slapped him and Honky cried. Honky tells the story about they had a confrontation one night and he approached him the next night and asked Dynamite if they had a problem and he said no and that was the end of that. What happened was that Heenan made a joke about Harley Race not being able to take an ass bump due to a colostomy bag then someone spread a rumor that after a sold out show at the Boston Garden, Honky said that he paid the boys’ rent. Honky actually told Jimmy Hart that at least they paid their rent tonight and that Dynamite would mention that to him for the next two weeks. Honky then talks about Dynamite weighing about 130 lbs when he first started and that he got bigger because of steroids. He then says that he terrorized Terry Taylor and would cut up his clothes, which is not a rib but just destroyin someone’s property. Raven says that when that happens, its a lose/lose situation as if you fight back, it means that you cannot take a rib. Anyway, Dynamite flipped out on him after drinking all day long and asked him why he said that about Harley and Honky told him that he didnt say the joke, Bobby Heenan did. Honky says that Dynamite might have been a tough guy all jacked up on roids and drunk but if there was any crying, it would have been Dynamite after he stuck his foot up his ass. Honky says that he pissed off all the European guys after saying that Dynamite deserves everything he got after the way he treated people. Apparently, Finlay was irate over this and threatened to fly over there and kick his ass. Honky then mentions how Diana Smith called Dynamite the biggest liar he has ever met.

Honky closes by saying that he has done a lot of bad things and some good things but he doesnt care what people say when he is gone as he can’t hear them. He doesnt even care what they say about him when he is alive.

Final Thoughts: A fantastic shoot. Both guys were insightful and hilarious, especially the Honky Tonk Man who stood out a lot more than Raven did here. The interview had a little bit of everything from gossip, gross stories, hilarious stories and even some heartfelt moments. The first hour contained a lot of knowledge and how it is lost on a majority of the wrestlers today, which is still a glaring problem today. Having the guys go through the list of rumors was a fun segment, even if it did drag a bit but the side-stories that they told were usually better than their own insight on the rumors. As the debut of the “Face Off” series, I dont think that any of the fifteen other volumes that have followed can compare to this one. I give this a high recommendation. You can download the video for $9.99 at Highspots.com. I did and it is well worth the price, IMO. Here is the link:

http://www.highspots.com/p/VD_faceoff1_raven_HTM.html





BoD Comics Presents….What If? – Triple H turned face

The recent post to the blog about Austins heel run got me
wondering…the night after Wrestlemania the fans were DYING to see HHH
turn face. My question is what if he did? That means no two man power
trip which means that the Austin/HHH vs Beniot/Jericho match never
happens, which means that Hunter doesn’t tear his quad, which means no
need to rush the invasion because you still have one of your top stars,
(maybe two although Beniot was probably headed for neck surgery either
way.) And instead of the invasion you have Hunter and Austin batting all
summer which means that when Hogan and Flair were brought in the
company is in an entirely different place. Call me a Triple H mark if
you must but I really wish he had hit Stone Cold with the sledgehammer
that night

Honestly, I think it would have created a few more interesting match-ups, but I think the InVasion would have happened as it did, with Triple H leading the WWE side of things. Plus, Hogan & Flair would have probably been brought in the same way, as they both came at a time when Triple H was back.

New Face of the Company?

Question for you and the blog of doomers if you're looking for material:


I think it's been pretty clear that no matter what happens and no matter how WWE tries to manipulate the situation, Cena really isn't going to have more than 60% of the arena in his corner (even on his best days).  I also think that it's likely Cena is going to have to pass the torch as the face of the company at some point in the next 12-18 months.  For various reasons, the odds-on favorite for this designation seems to be Sheamus.  But if you had the power to really rally behind someone and make them the face of the company, who would it be?  I'm also referring to all of the responsibilities that come with it:  media interviews, charity events, appearances at seemingly random quasi-celebrity or sporting events.  So, he'd have to be a guy who is willing and able to do all of that.  There are some clamoring for Punk to take charge, but I've seen/heard a couple of trainwrecks with Punk promoting that night's Raw or PPV.  In particular, there's been dorky radio morning show hosts who were completely shut down because Punk didn't feel like playing along…and then it just got awkward from there.  I just start to feel bad for everyone there, including Punk.  So while I think he is an acceptable face for a wrestling promotion, I'm not sure if he WANTS to be when it comes to all of the added peripheral responsibilities.

On the other hand, I've seen guys like Orton and Bryan just absolutely nail it (media interview, radio show) despite the fact that they don't have these larger-than-life personalities. Are we left with Bryan (after he trims his beard), Ziggler, and Sheamus as possibilities or is there another guy who you think can take the title of "face of the company" and run with it?  Or are we just waiting for lightning to strike with someone else for the next two years?

Oh, it's gonna be Sheamus, and you're gonna LIKE IT.  Even though he's only a year or so younger than Cena.  
Personally I say Ziggler, or on an outside shot John Morrison.  They're both young and well-spoken, can go in the ring, seem to understand social media, and seem like cool guys and not arrogant fuck-ups like a certain third-generation guy with two strikes.   

Greatest/Worst vs. Favorite/Hated Heel and Face Turns

I thought this might make for an interesting topic for the blog, given recent events involving CM Punk: what do you consider to be the greatest (in other words, the best executed and/or most significant) heel/face turn in professional wrestling history and the worst? Also, which heel/face turn would you consider a personal favorite (whether or not it did anything for business) and which did you absolutely hate with a passion?

Oo, fun list!
Best executed:  Paul Orndorff on Hulk Hogan.  Made sense from a business standpoint (#2 face upgrades to #1 heel), made sense from a storyline standpoint, drew MILLIONS of dollars in house show revenues alone.  Turned me into a fan for life.  Secondary honors go to the Midnight Express for making the Dynamic Dudes look like the gullible rubes we all knew they were.  The best ever face turn was clearly Virgil in 1991.  
Worst executed:  British Bulldog on Diesel in 1995.  Made no sense because they had no prior interaction, set up a title match that no one wanted to see and ended up being one of the lowest-bought PPVs in history, took a career midcarder in a loser tag team and suddenly we're supposed to buy him as a main event threat?  Epic fail all around.  Secondary honors go to both times that Billy Gunn turned on his tag team partners and failed as a single (Bart Gunn in 96 and Road Dogg in 99).  Worst face turn would probably be Randy Orton in 2004 because he looked like a weenie and it accomplished nothing.  
Favorite:  Barry Windham joins the Horsemen in 88. My friend was in TEARS when we were watching.  Also, Flair turning on Sting at Havoc 95 has gained momentum with me over the years to the point where I now love it and all the little nuances associated with t.  
Hated:  Mabel's turn in 95.  We all knew what was coming and there was nothing we could do to stop it.