Shane Douglas

Hey Scott,

Great work, longtime fan, I really love the old school Raw and Nitro reviews.  My older brother would send me printed out postage versions of your original Raw rants back in 1998 and 1999 when I would go away to summer camp in the summer so I could stay up to date while away at Christian-centered YMCA camping retreats.

I have been listening to Stone Cold's podcast with Shane Douglas lately, and it's interesting to reflect on Shane's potential as a young fiery babyface in early 90s WWF, then continuing with Johnny Ace as a Dynamic Dude in WCW, until reinventing himself as the badass bitter ex-employee rebel of ECW.

What was the RSPW viewpoint on Shane in 1990-91 in WWF?  Did anyone think he had potential to be a successful top-tier babyface?  Or was he always slotted as an opening match geek?  Watching old shows in retrospect, I have a soft spot for Shane and his Shawn Michaels-esque sympathy he could generate.  Did the Clique screw him over because he was trying too hard to take Shawn's spot?

Furthermore, what do you think Shane's ECW legacy will be remembered for?  I recall the clips of throwing down the NWA belt, feuding with Taz, and walking around in a cast injured with Chris Candido and the Triple Threat.  Do you think Shane could have ever drawn money for the Big Two?   Or was he just not that good?   He's made a pretty significant narrative that he was important during the golden age in the last 15 years with interviews, promotion, and hardcore revival shows.  Was Shane a significant part of the golden era, or just a bitter ex-employee?

​He probably could have been bigger, but there's no question that the Clique screwed him over in the WWF and the gimmick was death to begin with.  The hole was just too deep.  But I mean, let's be serious, he wasn't THAT good.  Being a top level worker and talker in ECW at that time wasn't exactly high praise on the national stage, ya know?  Heyman very carefully controlled what you saw and heard from people like Douglas, which was obvious when he was left to die in the WWF alone.  Not to mention that 90-93 Douglas bouncing around the ring and having ***** matches with Ricky Steamboat as a partner is a far cry from 95-2000 Douglas having garbage brawls and nursing a sore back that whole time.  
So yeah, he might have been a solid IC title level heel, but Shawn Michaels?  Forget it.  ​

Shane McMahon and WCW

Hi Scott,

I've been watching a lot of 2001 lately and seem to have a gap in my memory… I remember Shane O being the one to purchase WCW, beating Vince at Mania & then continuing on to the great match with Kurt Angle at KOTR. All of this was as a FACE.

My question is: when did Shane turn heel? It seemed that he/WCW were the faces to start with but obviously when the Invasion really kicked off they were all heels; please jog my memory!

​It was pretty quick after KOTR when they did the Alliance angle to turn everyone heel, so your timeline is correct.  It's kind of crazy how momentous a swing happened in ONE SHOW.  It literally was months of storyline twists crammed into a single RAW.  The disastrous Tacoma RAW was July 2, and then the crazy Atlanta RAW was July 9.  And they managed to do one of the biggest buyrates of the modern era with only 2 weeks build based off that, which still blows my mind.  ​

Shane Douglas


What's up with the constant Shane Douglas bashing on the blog? Shane Douglas is my favorite active wrestler. He's still having awesome brawls week after week, while BoD commenters defend the Rock's ringwork, or "oh it's ok Cena's champ again because I can watch old SNME for 10 bucks a month' or "Adam Rose would be huge if he had more people in his entourage". Absolutely silly to me. Meanwhile someone's gotta stick a SHANE DAGLAZ WORKS TEH TARGAT into the comments for every friggin article. You've got guys on there lamenting the loss of Santino but a real WRESTLER is supposedly a joke?  This year alone I've seen Douglas vs. Rhino tear the house down twice. Douglas will also stand around and shoot the shit with whoever wants to after the show. Does John Cena or Dolph Ziggler or Fandango do that with you guys? I'd rather watch a 2014 Shane Douglas match than any 2014 WWE match featuring anyone but Wyatts or ex-Shield.
Even Wyatt is debatable because it's not all that fun watching him job to Cena every week. If Douglas came back to WWE and jobbed to Cena every night and got called "the dean of POOPY admissions" in promos you guys would be cheering the hell out of him and complaining he isn't pushed more.  

4/10.  

Shane McMahon

Hi Scott,

In an industry of prevalent rumours of comebacks/returns, why is it we never hear them about Shane McMahon? He'd seem like an obvious candidate to return at some point, yet the longer he's gone (been 5/6 years now?) the less likely it seems like it's ever going to happen.

Any idea/word floating around on Shane ever showing up on screen again? Is he involved with the company in any capacity whatsoever? I think he's got a massive pop waiting for him if he ever turns up. 

He's in China making millions off the burgeoning PPV market there, I honestly don't think he needs or wants the hassle and politics of the family business any longer.   And good for him if that makes him happy!

Kayfabe Commentaries Presents: YouShoot with Shane Douglas

This was
filmed in 2012. It lasted about two hours and fifteen minutes.

The
interview starts with host Sean Oliver meeting with Douglas in an indoor pool
at a hotel. This was a spoof of Douglas’s first shoot interview with RF Video,
which took place at a pool.
 

 

BEGINNING

Douglas is
asked about his favorite Pittsburgh wrestling memory. He said that it was when
his dad took him to see Bruno Sammartino wrestle Stan Hansen at the Pittsburgh
Civic Center. He said that they sat eight rows from the ring and he was
emotionally invested in the whole match. At the time, Bruno was coming back
from a broken neck that was caused from a body slam by Hansen.

He is then
asked about his trainer, Dominic DeNucci, and if he ever smartened him up to
the business. He recalls a time while in Ohio that he was going over his match
with Mick Foley and repeatedly heard some yelling “kayfabe.” Douglas said he
had no idea what this meant and thought someone was screaming for a woman named
Kay. There were veterans like the Monndogs, Bruno Sammartino, and Johnny
Valiant around and he heard the screaming some more and thought nothing of it
until DeNucci came up and slapped him on the head. Douglas said that he never
knew about the word and neither did Foley so DeNucci grabbed both men and
pulled them into the showers and yelled at them for being disrespectful to the
veterans.

Someone then
sends in a video submission of Douglas, wrestling with his legal name, Troy Martin,
in a WWF squash match against Randy Savage then asks what it was like to be a
TV jobber. He said that DeNucci would send some of his students in a van to the
TV tapings and he went with Foley. Douglas said he worked against Savage, Paul
Orndorff, and Butch Reed. He then puts over the experience of working in front
of a large crowd and the importance of putting someone over and how to respect
the guy you are putting over. Douglas said that Savage and Orndorff, along with
mananger Bobby Heenan, approached him after the match and thanked him. He also
brings up how Mick Foley was at this taping and was intentionally clotheslined
in the jaw by the Dynamite Kid.

Necro Butcher
sends in a question via Facebook and asks about the UWF. He brings up how Watts
wanted to go national and that Eddie Gilbert, John Tatum, and Missy Hyatt came
to a show he was working at for Denucci and was scouting talent and Gilbert
asked him about wrestling full-time. Douglas said that he had a career in
education and by the time he wanted to go, a hiring freeze took place as Watts
was selling to Crockett so he didn’t get to go over.

 

He is then
asked if Gilbert gave him the “Shane Douglas” name. He said it is half true as
Giblert told him to pick between Shane or Cody, and he went with Shane. After
an hour or so trying to pick a name, Missy comes from the kitchen and suggested
the name Shane Douglas.

Douglas is
asked about a match that was shown on Primetime Wrestling were he got pinned
twice by Paul Roma. They show the finish that had the ref count to three about
Roma rolled through a crossbody but the match still continued and the bell rang
a few times and after another minute, Roma got the win with a powerslam.
Douglas said that the ref screwed up and that was not supposed to be the finish
and that Roma was pissed afterwards. Douglas said that Roma could never see the
big picture and always had a short fuse.

He is then
asked if the WWF had bigger plans for him after his performance in the 1991
Royal Rumble. He said that they did and he was working with Jimmy Hart on a few
songs, one of which he claims was the theme given to the Young Stallions team?
That makes no sense, as the Stallions got that song in either 1987 or 1988.
Anyway, the gimmick for Shane was supposed to be similar to Bon Jovi and the
plan was to record a mini LP and do a small tour. Douglas said that they
started to move forward but that was when his dad got sick and was living alone
with Emphysema and told Vince he needed to leave and take care of him. Vince
told him the door was open for a return.

 

DYNAMIC DUDES

Some guy
sends in a video submission and rips on their attire  then asks who gave the idea to form this
team. Douglas first agrees with the 80’s style being “faggy” but claims that
they were the #2 merchandise seller behind Sting at the time. He said that
Eddie Gilbert told him about the team name and at first they thought he was
joking. He tells us that the name was created by Jim Herd, who believed that
all trends started West then headed East and conducted a study that found out
the two most popular slang terms used among kids were “dynamic” and “dude.”

He is then
asked about his relation with Johnny Ace. He calls Johnny a bright guy and said
that he worked at Honeywell before breaking into the business, so he was well
versed in the corporate world. Shane also says that Johnny loved to go out and
meet girls and the plan for the team was for him to be the workhorse and Johnny
the personality. He also said Johnny was lazy and liked to sleep late and
rarely went to the gym.

HEAT

Shane is
asked if he was ever involved in a backstage altercation. He said he got into
it several times with Sandman, mostly due to him being drunk and reckless in
the ring. He claims Sandman told him he could not perform his character unless
he drank before the match. Douglas said that it started with Sandman drinking two
16oz cans of beers and grew significantly after that. Douglas tells a story of
one night during a brawl in the ring, Sandman dropped his kendo stick and Shane
picked it up and hit someone before putting it back down. After he enters the
locker room, he overhears Sandman flipping out about Douglas using the stick so
Douglas went over to him and they fought. Douglas said that you should let guys
fight as it lets out all the tension, instead of breaking it up and letting it
build. Douglas then adds that he put Sandman’s head through a trophy case at
the end of the fight.

We now go
into the “Dick Bag” game. He puts several names in the bag. He puts in Jim Ross
for pressuring him to go back to the WWF for the Dean Douglas gimmick. He throws
in Shawn Michaels, even making a cross with the name cards and says that instead
of saying Jesus of Nazareth, it now reads Shawn Michaels. He also puts in Hulk
Hogan, claiming that he could have single-handedly unionized wrestling. He puts
in Vince McMahon after wiping the name card on his ass. He puts in Flair for
how he treated him when he was younger but does state he feels bad for him due
to his problems with alcohol. He throws in Vince Russo for writing horrible
stuff. He puts in the Dynamite Kid for hurting Foley and throws in HHH just for
being in the Kliq but also said later on that he liked Nash and X-Pac and did
not want to put in Hall due to his rampant substance abuse issues. He throws in
Tony Schiavone and Raven, for stating that he is the greatest ECW champion of all-time.
He also puts in Paul Heyman and tells us that he owes him $144,000 and once
swore on his father’s eye sight that he would give him his money.

During the “Dick
Bag” game, Douglas tells a story of HBK bullying Nash in Montreal. During this
time, the house show business was really in the shitter. Carl Oulette worked
hard to put together a good show in Montreal and Vince wanted a hot finish to
bring the crowd back next time. Douglas said that while in the locker room, HBK
went to Nash and asked about the match and went told of the finish, HBK told
Nash that he was the champ and should not put over “that piece of shit” clean.
He said that HBK kept hammering this point home until Oulette walks in the
room. HBK says hi and pats on the back then stands behind him, with Oulette not
knowing due to him being blind in one eye, and starts giving hand gestures to
Nash on what to say to Oulette about not putting him over clean. Nash then told
Oulette that he wanted to win using his Jackknife and Oulette said they could
not come back and do another match if that was the finish. Then a little later
on when everyone is in the locker room, HBK goes in front of everyone and tells
them that Oulette was too much of a primadonna to put over the champ and
Oulette went after him but it was pulled apart. The next day while at the
Montreal Days Inn, The Kliq walked behind Shane and Credible and told them to
come into their room for a few beers. Shawn then goes to call Vince to tell him
to fire Oulette but stopped and either him or Hall, Douglas cannot remember who,
decided that they should instead make Vince “starve” him for two years. Douglas
then tells another story of how after the Barber Shop incident when HBK was
with the Rockers, Marty went after HBK in the locker room. HBK went on the
ground into the fetal position and Marty kicked him a few times until Curt
Hennig and Shane pulled him off after they laughed.

A fan send
in a video submission asking Shane about the time he asked him for a photo with
him and Tommy Dreamer at an independent show in Maine and Shane said that it
might not happen as he had problems with Tommy. Shane remembers this and said
that he and Tommy get along professionally but have different takes on
philosophy. He tells a story at the end of his ECW run, Francine got ribbed
when someone dumped a large bottle of bodily fluids into her bag. He said that
Tommy accused him and told Shane that several guys wanted to jump him for what
he did. Shane did state that Francine deserved the bag and seemed to know the
specifics of the rib but denied he did that. Shane also said that Bam Bam
Bigelow told him that Tommy went to him and said guys wanted to jump him for
the prank too. Nothing else ever happened as a result.

Someone
tweets a question of how Douglas would pull Francine’s arm while he took a
shit. Shane said that a diet that is heavy in protein and amino acids really
make your shit smell worse than usual. He then said that Francine had a weak
stomach and he would hold her hand while taking a shit. He then tells a story
of how Debbie the ticket taker was being a real pain in the ass one day in the
bathroom so he took a chunk of his shit and placed it on a piece to toilet
paper behind her and she reached back with her hand and it went into the chunk.
He then tells his favorite rib involving shit when he was flying first class
with all wrestlers with the exception being some guy who was next to Curt
Hennig. After talking his ear off, the guy went into the bathroom and Hennig
took his hands down his pants and circled the rim of the guys drink with shit.
The guy came back and after taking a sip, he asked the stewardess for another
drink, stating this one tasted like shit. Sean asks why wrestlers use shit for
the pranks and Douglas replies that it is a shitty business.

Douglas is
now asked about breaking Gary Wolfe’s neck. He claims that Wolfe was bugging
him about taking a DDT straight down on his head but Douglas explained to him
the dangers of the move. Wolfe didn’t care and they went out and they did the
move and Wolfe rolled out of the ring and grabbed his neck but nothing else happened.
Two days later, Tod Gordon told him that Wolfe was in the hospital with a
broken neck. Douglas said that he went to see Wolfe, who told Shane that he did
the move on purpose while Shane told him not to take the move this way.

The next
question is about the incident in which HBK was attacked by Marines. Shane said
that Davey told him the story. HBK was drinking all night and became
belligerent and was hitting on the Marine’s girl. Davey was driving and X Pac
was in the backseat and when they pulled away, they saw a group of several
Marine’s and HBK yelled out the window at the guy, who then pulled him out and
started beating the shit out of him. Davey told him he tried to help but his friends
all jumped him and Shane says he believes Davey Boy as HBK was scrawny and Davey
was jacked so more people would be needed to keep him down. Shane gives credit
to the WWF for using enough smoke and mirrors to explain what happened then
says if he was there, he would have helped out the Marine’s in a heartbeat.

A fan asks
if Shane is mad at HHH for ripping off his Franchise gimmick. Shane said that
when he first started out, Scott Irwin told him that everyone had been done
before and instead of trying to be original, take pieces form certain
characters and use it to fit your style. Shane said he took parts from Brad
Armstrong, Barry Windham, Ric Flair, Terry Funk, and Ricky Steamboat. HE says
he never copied any promos verbatim then closes by saying he has no right to
get upset at HHH.

He is asked
about a story Jim Cornette told about him being pissed at Shane for going over
his head to management about the Dynamic Dudes. Shane said at that time, WCW
had a committee of bookers and you had to talk with everyone there and they
would send you to different people and they would all switch their answers
around. He says that he is friendly with Cornette today when he sees him then
calls him a “walking encyclopedia” of the business but says that while Cornette
lives wrestling 24/7, it is just a job to him. Douglas then adds that the
reason Heyman and Cornette cannot stand each other is because they are cut from
the same cloth.

 

SEX

When asked
about a road story, he tells the first time he was on the road with the UWF. He
traveled with Davey Haskins and Carl Fergie, the cousin of Jerry Lawler. They
are in a hotel room in Baton Rouge when the door knocks with two women and
behind them were two younger girls, who Douglas learned later on were just
sixteen years old. One of the girls asked Fergie how he had been doing as she hadn’t
seen him in a while then Fergie tells her to stop flapping her jaws and start
sucking his dick and she did.

Rob
Feinstein sends in a video submission asking Shane if he ever had sex with
Francine. Douglas said no but Heyman always told them to kayfabe with the
dressing room and they all bought it, even citing one time when Saturn and Taz
yelled at him for being a hypocrite about how Shane stated he was loyal to his
wife.

Up next is
the “Ho Bag” game. He puts in Dixie Carter, saying she was a bimbo. He also
tosses in Elektra and Jasmin St. Claire. He puts in Karen Angle for leaving
Kurt and going with Jeff Jarrett, then tosses in Gorgeous George. This was
uneventful.

 

DRUGS

New Jack
sends in a video submission asking Shane if he knew that the night he passed
out in the parking lot in New Orleans that he was snorting heroin instead of
cocaine. Shane says he has no recollection of this ever taking place.

He is then
asked about how he left TNA to check himself into rehab. Shane said that he
developed an addiction in 1999. He was 36 years old and it was taking him up to
45 minutes to get out of bed in the morning. He said he had 28 surgeries and 18
broken bones in his career and was told by a friend of how his wife had
fibromyalgia and was unable to leave the couch but after seeing a doctor, she
was able to play golf again. Shane went to the doctor and got a script for
Oxycontin, which was being advertised as a “miracle drug” at the time. He then
goes on a rant about the government going after nickel-bag dealers instead of
going after Big Pharma. He then adds how drug stores are all over the place now
for a reason, no matter what neighborhood, and they are not their just because
people needs milk and eggs.

We now play
the “Gimmick Bag” game. Here are the results:

Alcohol:
Sandman

Marijuana:
RVD

Cocaine: New
Jack

Pills:
Himself

Steroids: HHH,
saying that it is a receipt

Heroin: Jake
Roberts

Shit: Curt
Hennig

Big Black
Dildo: Ric Flair

 

TNA

He is asked
if Hogan and Bischoff were either helpful or hurtful to TNA’s growth. Shane
equates TNA’s growth to a heartbeat in a dead body, saying there hasn’t been any
at all. He then repeats an old adage that says if you have a talented roster, a
network, and a $100 million dollars you can start a wrestling company but Dixie
Carter has proven that wrong. Shane then questions why you would hire the
people that helped bankrupt another company to run yours. 

He is then
asked about the hardest part of being a road agent. Shane said that you have to
put yourself into the wrestler’s characters and know their strengths. He said
that Heyman;s best attribute was that he highlighted your strengths and did not
expose your weaknesses. He then recalls one time AJ Styles was sitting down and
had to cut a six minute promo. Shane said that is death for a person who is not
a good talker and said that it would be hard for someone like himself or Ric
Flair, who are considered good talkers in the business.

He is asked
why he left TNA. Shane said his youngest son was born and after a few failed
detox attempts, he has home with his sons and while throwing up and out of it
due to the pain pills, his oldest son caught no and asked if he was sick again
and at that point, knew he had to change. He said he told TNA that he was working
on a book and requested a week off without interruption. So, he went to a hotel
room and taped down all the curtains and shades then took his last doses of medications,
knowing that he would be detoxing heavily the next morning. He then said he sat
in that room for a week, lying in his own piss and shit then went home hoping
to feel better but got worse and believed he messed up his intestines.  He checked into a hospital and after that he
went to rehab and 34 days later, went back to work. While he was gone, Dixie
told him that he would receive his base salary and told he and his wife that
his job would be safe when he came back. Shane found out that everyone pitched
in and did his job, basically for free, so he could receive his money. When he
got back, Dixie asked him if he wanted to go public or keep private about his stint
in rehab. He said that he was never afraid to have that come out and said if he
could help just one person that it would be worth it all. Shane says that he
had received over 200 letters and Facebook postings who that told him his story
convinced them to go get help. Back to the story of how he left, Shane said
that two months after his story, right before Christmas, TNA stopped calling
him back to come into work. He said that TNA used him to help their image then
fired him afterwards.

 

EDUCATION

Shane is
asked about his degrees. He said he does not hold a Masters Degree in
Education. After graduating in 1986, he went to Pitt to go for his Masters in
International Relations but after taking forever to park his car and going into
a class where he was the only white male and was unable to understand most of
what the other students were saying, he left. He got his education certificate
then in 1991 after leaving the WWF, decided to try to get into medical school.
He took all of the pre-requisites and got A’s in everything except for Organic
Chemistry. He went back to wrestling afterwards and now at age 47, he wants to
either go back and get his MBA or get a degree in Political Science. He is then
asked about the “No Child Left Behind” law and said that it is typical government
bullshit for schools to pass kids no matter what in order to get funding.

 

Up next is a
segment in which Dean gives grades to various wrestlers in categories such as
work-rate, promo ability, charisma, and personality. The grades are all pretty
much what you would expect. He loves the promo work of Jericho and Austin, even
though they are different from traditional wrestling promos. He called Lex
Luger the most condescending person he has ever met. He gave Razor Ramon and F
for his promo ability, saying that the character and fake accent was terrible
on the mic. He thought that Raven’s promo ability was perfect for his character.
He also tells a story of how when he was teaming with Ricky Steamboat in WCW,
Sitng and Vader complained to the office about having to follow Steamboat so
they switched it up for Steamboat to go afterwards. Shane puts over Steamboat
for always wanting to go all-out for the fans.

 

POTPOURRI

A fan asks
Shane, a big fan of Pittsburgh sports, who he would call the franchise of the sports
scene. He said it would have to be Mario Lemieux. Douglas puts him over for
taking a team that had sucked for a long time and not only winning the Stanley
Cup, but also buying part of the team.

He is then
asked his thoughts on Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer. He first puts them over
for being able to make money off the business in a way that no one else could
figure out. He then adds that they had a penchant to use their writings to
espouse their ideas. He tells a story of how Meltzer wrote in the Observer
about Shane lying about his low pay in the WWF. Shane claims that he contacted
Meltzer and told him he would send him a cop of his pay stub only if he would
publish it in the Observer but that Meltzer refused.

Shane is
given a twenty-second countdown to list of his favorites. Here they are:

Match:
Savage vs. Steamboat at WrestleMania III

Song: “Come
on and Love me” by Kiss

Montreal
Incident: Work

Road Food:
Chicken Fried Steak

Wrestling
Movie: Paradise Alley

Dean Douglas
or Dynamic Dude: Dean Douglas

 

The last
question is if Shane considers anyone in the business deserves to be called the
“Franchise” today? Shane said no one fits the definition of his character and
that Bobby Roode has the potential but TNA has mismanaged him.

 

Final Thoughts: Overall, I thought it was okay for a
YouShoot. Shane seems like he has a good mind for the business and an
intelligent guy overall. He did outright deny a few stories though and I get a
feeling that he was holding back about his drug use. He did not appear to have
an agenda and even though I agree with him on what he said about Big Pharma, he
didn’t exactly say anything about taking responsibility himself for developing his
addiction. I give this a mild recommendation and if you are a big fan of
Douglas, you are probably better off seeking out one of his RF Video shoots.

Shane Douglas on the new Foley DVD


> So I was just watching For All Mankind when I saw that Shane Douglas appears as a talking head early in the doc. It’s obviously a new video, too, shot for the documentary. Is this his first appearance on a WWE release aside from old footage?
Yup, dude’s been basically blacklisted since he tried to jump with the Radicalz and then “changed his mind.”  I’m pretty surprised actually.

Shane McMahon: highest average star ratings ever?

OK, this seems like someone on the blog can research:
Judged by your star ratings only, I'm pretty sure Shane McMahon is a top 5 all time wrestler, if you take everyone's average star ratings. Even though he's only had what- a dozen matches – I think his star rating average puts him as an all timer, possibly even #1! Thoughts? Is he the only wrestler never to have a bad match that you've reviewed?

Shane has absolutely had bad matches.  The Kane matches with the testicular electrocution were nothing special, and he had a big fat DUD against Vince on TV once.  I think Flair or Luger are actually #1 according to those who have tracked these things for me in the past.  

Shane Douglas “threatens” Vince and Dixie.

Scott,
How pathetic and delusional does Shane look here? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzJDh-UwO68
Does he really think his one-time reunion of has-been (and in some cases, never-were) losers is going to pose any kind of threat to WWE or TNA? He sounds like he really does believe his own hype. All that was missing was a petty shot at Ric Flair. 

No, his master plan is clearly to show up at RAW with a mask and cause a scene.
Oh, wait, he already tried that.
I love how the tiny flyer is posted like 10 feet in the air, so no normal human being could even see it walking down the street.   Vince is shaking in his boots now!  You can't compete with that kind of advertising power!