Hey everyone, I’ll be interviewing “The Franchise” Shane Douglas and “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan about Pro Wrestlers vs. Zombies, and obviously about their careers. If there’s anything you might be curious to ask them, leave it below in the comments.
I was thinking that as a way for Bryan to have to overcome even more odds is that the match could be no-dq…..but only for HHH. Bryan could be disqualified but HHH can't.
I like it! It'll make it all the more dramatic when HHH wins clean.
This was filmed on 3/10/05 in Bristol, PA.
The shoot runs for two hours and forty-seven minutes
They are first asked about their one hour match in Dayton, OH from June 2004 and where the idea came from. They both laugh for a bit then tell their stories. Joe said that they were at one of his favorite bars in California and were thinking about something special they should do for the match when he joked that they should do one of those stupid hour-long matches that Punk was doing with Chris Hero. Then, he claimed that Punk immediately called Gabe Sapolsky and told him they should to that. Punk then tells his side of the story, which was that he felt the match was just thrown together. He then said that Joe was drunk and said they should do a draw, as he didnt want to kill off everyone. Punk then said he was driving when Joe said that and then told Gabe the draw was a good idea, which Punk liked because he wanted to keep the belt strong.
They were both surprised by the great crowd reactions to the match, as Dayton was a new market for the company. Punk talks about how he works better hurt because it makes you go harder in the ring. He also said that they did not blow any moves or burn through their whole moveset. Joe said that he does not care for matches in which everyone kicks out of a finisher. Punk also adds that you always save stuff for the next match, especially when you work someone for the first time.
Punk’s phone goes off as Joe talks about Homicide leading into his heel persona and he jokes about Joe needing a food allowance when the caller tells Punk that someone wants to book him. They both put over the crowd at the Dayton show for coming out and wanting to have a good time.
Now, Punk is asked about whether or not is post-match promo was scripted and he said no. Punk says that he will occasionally jot down something that is said by a fan, in a song, or from someone on the street and use that in his promo but everything he says is from his heart and adds that he has no filter from his brain to his mouth. Punk also says that his memory is shot too.
They both had their reservations about doing another one-hour draw but did it anyway. Punk said he was angry about that and he and Joe sent Steve Corino a nasty email about having to do another hour-long draw. They both said they were hurt as Punk really hurt his back and Joe’s leg was a mess, with Punk saying all of this fluid would end up in his shin and it looked like a pumpkin. Joe then talks about how his leg was a mess the day of the match and Punk wrestled twice the night before and with both guys rushed into this re-match with Gabe coming up to them in the locker room asking them if they had put the match together. They said that Mick Foley came in and asked basically told Joe he should not wrestle.
Punk said that again, the best stuff in the match was done on the fly. Joe says that he put on an STF that really stretched him out while Punk’s back was killing him as Punk was cussing him out. Joe then talks about Punk calling for a spear and he had never done one before. Punk adds that Gabe was super nervous about the match as they were really hurt and hadn’t worked out a lot of the match but they are professionals and they have to go out and perform anyway. Punk then says that working on the fly also benefits the crowd, as you can feed off of them. Punk says he is surprised whenever he wrestles in Chicago because he always gets cheered. Joe jokes that he cannot understand that because he has been an asshole to so many people.
In regards to this match, both guys felt it was good and they are their own worst critics. Punk said he loves to watch his matches on tape but only focuses on the crowd and this leads to he and Joe talking about different types of fans.
They are asked about their match receiving a ***** rating from Dave Meltzer in the “Wrestling Observer Newsletter.” Joe said it was cool but he never subscribed to the newsletter and only heard about it from other promoters, adding that Gabe was more excited than he was. Punk said that it was the first ***** match in North America in several years and thought that was cool.
They talk about their third match, which had a no time-limit stipulation, which Punk said was his idea with the belief that they wanted to let the crowd believe that the match would go longer but instead they would go nuts for twenty minutes. Punk puts over Ricky Steamboat for coming up with the spot that had Joe’s feet on the ropes as he tried to pin Punk, even though they thought it was lame at first but thought about it and realized it was genius. Punk then adds that he never thought they could never top their ***** match so he wanted to go back to the story of their first match. Punk says that he wanted to make the crowd believe that he was winning the belt but he wanted to fuck over the crowd, just like HHH. He then says when he makes his comeback from the sleeper, all of the people booing him (the match was in New Jersey and they always gave Punk shit) stopped and started to cheer for him to break free. Joe then talks about a guy in the front row who was very supportive of him before the match then afterwards, Joe said that he looked at him like he killed his dog. Punk throws in how it gets him off when he can get a reaction like that from the crowd. Joe also says how he loved that they could ellicit those repsonses from an indy crowd, which are usually “smark types.” Joe says that no matter how many newsletters you read or other things you read on the net, he wants you to lose yourself into the match and become a fan.
In regards to their “Trilogy,” Punk talks about how the second one might have been the better actual match, the third one had a lot more emotion. He says that it varies day-to-day whether the second or third match is his favorite. Punk then says that you can have the shittiest match in the world with tons of blown spots but if you have a great finish, that is all they remember.
Punk is asked if he had a finish he came up with that led to an argument with Gabe. Punk said he doesn’t remember then jokes that he wanted to win the belt, because he HHH, then goes on to say how he sucks as a trainer because he is “sloppy” (he even used the air quotes for that one). He finishes that he is a belt mark and that he passed over a raise for the belt as this all has Joe cracking up. Punk was clearly addressing his critics here. They both rag on Gabe for a bit afterwards.
Now, they give advice for those first coming into RoH. Joe says forget all of the “strong-style” bullshit and just relax and be a pro wrestler. Punk jokes that he is “Kings Road” then says he will call Gabe during the break to see what the argument over the finish was about.
They come back from break but were unable to reach Gabe. When asked how they want their trilogy to be remembered, Punk said that he just wanted to get the belt over during the feud. He wanted to make it seem like something two guys would die over. He then says that they had three matches that probably had no business being that good and talks about being compared to Flair/Steamboat, saying those guys wrestled daily, twice on Sundays, and they only wrestle 3 times a week.
In regards to working with Mick Foley, Punk said that he never figured that he would be able to work with Foley but he ended up learning a ton from him and is flattered that he is a fan of both him and Joe. Punk recalls how a frantic Gabe ran down the hall to tell Punk that Foley arrived and was going to cut a promo in the ring. His arrival was unannounced too. Joe then said that Gabe told him he had to go out for their promo too. Joe called Foley one of the greatest guys on the mic ever, because he leaves things open-ended. When he talks about their match, he said that Foley believed in the hype about Joe stiffing people in the ring and told Joe that back when he was younger, he could throw down with him. Joe said he tried to take care of him but Mick was really in bad physical shape at the time. At the end of the match, Mick said that his knees arent what they used to be and he went a lot harder than his body allowed.
Joe talks about the RoH roster now from when the company first started. He says that the roles are a lot more defined now. When the company first started, Joe said all of the shows were put together as a “Super Indy” card but that it had no flow and everyone went all out every match so it kinda became everyone trying to out do each other and that exhausts the product. He said that he likes to believe that they are not insulting people’s intelligence but notes that they have their fun, because it has its place in wrestling. Joe says the anlge are focused on the belts and how they want everyone to strive to win the RoH Championship. Punk adds that everything is better now and says that a lot of the shows from 2002 do not hold up well now and are “one-match shows.” He even says how the production was poor and that it is so much better now. Punk then talks about how back when the company first started, everyone just wanted to steal the show but today, the locker room is a lot smarter now and if someone uses a certain move as a signature spot or finisher, they will stop using that. This leads to him discussing about how Super Dragon came in and tried the dive that Homicide uses and it got no reaction, where as Homicide himself knows when to use it and that is why it gets over. He says their is a difference in being lazy and being smart in regards to your spot on the show.
Now they talk about guys like Jimmy Rave, Jay Lethal, and Roderick Strong and how much they have improved. Punk proclaims that 2005 will be Strong’s year. Joe also talks about Austin Aries and how he has made a name for himself. They both once again talk about how the locker room is smarter as Joe said before when you went to an RoH show, you went to a show like your local independent high school gym show but now, it has a big event feel.
When asked about the rumors of Mick Foley getting both guys into the WWE, they said that Foley came up to them and had an idea about being sick of the muscle heads on TV and that they know how to wrestle. Punk believes that Foley did not want to work a program with Ric Flair then Vince McMahon told Foley about working a program with himself. He then goes on about how Foley had a timeline in place for how to bring them in that revolved around Foley cutting a promo about Randy Orton and how Vince thought he was great and the future but he isnt, which would then lead to Foley introducing both of them to Vince, telling him that he didnt have msucles and made him money and so could they, without being all jacked-up. He said it was supposed to blossom from that and thought it was a cool idea but no way thought that it would happen.
That led to Punk talking about how when he watched wrestling as a kid, everyone looked different and that all of those guys like Piper, Muraco, and Roberts would not even get hired today by the WWE. Punk then even claims that if Hogan went looking for a job there today, they would have told him to work on his abs. He said he loved pro wrestling because everyone was different but now they are all the same. He uses Chris Masters as an example of how he has a gimmick of having the perfect body but that there was guys who are on before him and after him that have even better bodies, which makes Masters look like a “shithead” that needs to use more steroids in order to keep up with his gimmick. Joe adds how when the WWE made money, even in the Austin/Rock era, they had so many characters that made things special and now they all look the same. Joe also did not believe that Foley’s proposed angle would come into fruition.
The subject of whether or not they would take a developmental contract with the WWE comes up. Joe said that he makes more money now. Punk said that he is at a different place than the other guys who are signing the contracts from smaller indy feds for just $500 a week. Punk also said how he wouldnt be able to do what they do now if he signed with them (Punk signed a developmental deal three months after this interview was filmed). Joe talks about how his paychecks are a lot more now than that and says he was brought up to wrestle different than the WWE style, while saying that there is nothing wrong with that style but he enjoys working the way he wants to right now. Joe then talks about his friends in the WWE, like John Cena, and how he hopes that his career blows up and he gets to be a movie star like The Rock. Joe also has a fear that he would end up as just another guy on the roster if he went to the WWE. Punk goes back to say as long as guys are comfortable signing $500 a week deals that barely support their “steroid habit,” he and Joe can do what they are doing in RoH. Joe talks about how the WWE is desperately trying to find the next Rock and how they could be scouting better wrestling talent to plug into roles and that a strong undercard has always kept the WWE thriving. Joe talks about how they are trying to pull in the mainstream fans into wrsetling and does not harbor any resentment towards that because its a company trying to make money. However, he says the roster they have now is nothing like it was when they were popular and making money and thinks they are stifling some of the guys on their roster by not letting them branch out and being themselves.
Both guys said it was cool working with Jushin Liger at the New Japan Dojo. Punk said the atmosphere was great and that Liger was hanging out with everyone, not acting like he was above them or anything.
The interviewer now rattle off a bunch of names and asks for their thoughts on them. Teddy Hart is brought up first as Joe laughs then Punk says he buried the hatchet with him at a show this past October (They fought outside of a diner when they worked for TNA) when Hart walked past them and asked if they were cool. Joe said that he still living in his own world.
They both call Christopher Daniels “OMD,” which they say stands for “Old Man Daniels.” Punk talks about how along with Reckless Youth, Daniels was one of the first “indy superstars.” He puts him over for helping out Colt Cabana and himself when they started out. Punk then tells a story about he refers to Daniels’ daughter as “Catcus” after he held her for the first time and had no idea he was supposed to support her head and Daniels yelled at him for holding her like she was a cactus. He then takes out his wallet and shows us a picture of the child in her father’s arms. He then says that he is glad TNA is around so it can pay for Daniels’ mortage. Punk then says he bought the kid all sorts of cool clothes, like a Boris Karloff shirt, and jokes that he is called “Punkle.” Joe said that Daniels is responsible for all of the exposure he got his first year in wrestling. He says that the biggest mystery of all time is why the WWE never signed Daniels, who can do it all. He even recalls a match Daniels had with Kurt Angle, who had a concussion and could not take a bump, and called it one of the greatest matches he had ever seen. This took place when Kurt first started out in wrestling. Joe then talks about how when he first started out traveling as a wrestler and had no money, Daniels would give him advice and lend him his credit card to pay for rent-a-cars and hotels, despite the fact that Daniels himself didnt have enough money to be lending him. He calls him one of the best guys in the business.
When discussing AJ Styles, Punk said that Daniels put him into the spotlight and how Styles is now all over the place and is now the golden boy of TNA. Punk thinks that AJ looks up to Daniels as a father figure. He then jokes that you should never listen to a conversation about religion between AJ and himself. Joe talks about how AJ loves video games but says that he is better than him as he brags about beating him at “Tekken 4.” Punk adds that he doesnt play video games.
In regards to Steve Corino, Joe said he is a good guy. When he first came to New Japan, Joe said that Corino was the biggest joke in the office as at that time and now, he is pudgy and is really heavy in the ring. Punk said that Corino always gave him shit about being drug-free and saying his gimmick was a work but then realized that he was a good guy. Punk then tells a story about how he was with Corino and Raven in England. Corino and Punk decided to rag on Raven all night long to the point that he didnt want to go out with them that night. Punk tells a story of that night and how they wound up at a “Transvestite Bar.” Alex Shane, a big British wrestler who ran FWA, decided that it would be a funny rib to take them all to a tranny bar. Corino and Punk were already informed what was happening and decided to go along with the rib. Punk talked about how over in Roppongi, Japan, they would always see transsexuals who looked feminine but in England, they look like guys in beards who wore their sisters clothes. Anyway, Alex Shane comes and Punk says he is high-fiving everyone their and told them he has a good time there. Punk and Corino are at the bar, sticking out, then they decided to go pee, as Corino did not want to go alone, but the line to the men’s room was huge. Anyway, Corino was really scared as he was drunk and in a stall and had Punk talk to him as he was inside. Then, they left and saw a tranny who Punk described as “eight-feet tall” started to ask were they were from and when she mentioned Chicago, Corino said that Punk was from there and she started to talk to Punk and she talked to him and the tranny started to put her hand down low and Punk slapped the hand away and yelled “I will beat your ass” as the music stopped briefly, then played again. She told Punk to settle down and remarked that he was feisty as Punk was thinking that they were about to get their asses kicked, joking that Dick Murdoch would be rolling around in his grave. Anyway, nothing bad happened and they stayed for a lip-synching contest, when Punk said they jokingly referred to one of the contestants as “Haas-Benjamin,” who he described looked just like “Gollum.”
When discussing Homicide, Joe said that he is a great person and if you ever have any problems in New York, he can take care of it for you, but said that one time when they were in Southern California for Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, Punk, Homicide, Nosawa, and Rocky Romero, and B-Boy all stayed with Joe and went out to a bar that Joe frequented. Everyone but Punk was getting smashed and Joe mentioned that the female bartenders were scantily clad and after they all drank 4-5 bottles of Patron, Punk was the designated driver and they only had one car, which was B-Boy’s, and it was a stick shift. Well, Punk did not know how to drive manual but B-Boy was drunk after one shot of tequila and a beer, which even Punk said he made fun of him for how low of a tolerance he had for booze. Punk stalled out four times before leaving the parking lot and they all want Del Taco. In the drive thru, Punk kept stalling out and B-Boy would laugh at him so Punk said he slapped him. They get back to Joe’s and Punk tries to sleep as Nosawa begs him for a ride to LAX and Punk said he didnt have a car to drive then they realized that Nosawa disappeared. Romero tried to leave with his keys as Punk said no that he was drunk then Romero took a swing at Punk so Punk had to take him down and finally asks for his keys then Romero threw his keys hard and Punk said it hit him in the dick. Everyone in the house is a mess but Punk so as Joe was sleeping, Punk decided to paint his toenails as a joke then Romero decided to paint his entire foot blue. Joe gets up and went to the bathroom to hurl and it got quiet then Punk said Joe would fall asleep in between is massive vomiting spells. During the night, Punk wakes up and sees Homicide standing above him undoing his belt as Punk started to scream as Homicide said he was taking a piss. Punk yelled that he was not in the bathroom so he got up and had to guide him into the bathroom. Punk wakes up and sees Romero ask him for his keys and Punk said he was hungover but okay to drive and he gives them to him. Joe said he woke up and is house was turned upside down with pieces of a chicken burrito everywhere and he followed a trail of burrito all the way outside. Joe then screams as he opens the bathroom and asks why there is water all over the floor, which has Punk cracking up as he realized it was not water but from when Homicide took a piss. Low Ki came over as Punk told him the story of Homicide pissing and Ki told him that this has happened before as one time at Monsta Mack’s house, Homicide was tanked and went into a bedroom and opened the closet, where he winded up pissing all over someone’s shoes. Punk said that he loves Homicide and they still do not know what happened to Nosawa, as he contacted them a few day later from Japan. Punk then says to watch the PWG night II tournament and see how hungover everyone is but him.
Punk says that Low Ki is crazy by going to ridiculous lengths to maintain kayfabe. The first time he hung out with him was at a bar in Pittsburgh with Sandman, Cabana, and Daniels. Punk says he is extremely intense and warms up for his matches by lifting furniture.
About Colt Cabana, Punk said that he is crazy in a different way, in that he is always joking around. Punk said that he has a million stories about him. He said the first day of camp at the Domain, he met Cabana who was wearing a Doug Collins jersey. Punk calls him a gimmick master too. Joe says that Cabana is very frugal and will go to any length to make money from his wrestling table at shows, saying he will buy masks in Mexico for $1 then sell them to you for $35. Punk said that Cabana has the dirtiest apartment ever, such as his bloody singlet hanging up like it is on display and he even has a squat rack in the middle of the apartment that his roommate got for cheap. Punk said that Cabana’s parents are the greatest and that his dad is a salesman, who sells Sean John and Fubu clothes. He tells a story of Colt trying to be funny when he called him upstairs to see something funny and it was Colt’s dad lying in bed naked. Punk then tells a nasty story of Adam Pearce playing a rib on Cabana once when they first started by wiping his ass and putting the toilet paper in Cabana’s pant pocket but Cabana just rolled with the punches. Cabana also apparently played a prank on Wade Keller by leaving him all sorts of messages at 4am about the Junkyard Dog returning.
They tell the story of how they became friends. Punk said they both started on the same RoH show and that they got into a conversation about music and Joe asked him about being straight-edge and from there, they became friends. They then joke about how they live parallel lives for a few minutes as Joe talks about how he once tossed a guy through a glass partition at a bar for touching his girl and Punk said when he was in TNA, he went to a fiddle bar with his then girlfriend, Tracy Brooks, and Scott D’Amore, Daniels, and America’s Most Wanted when some guy kept grabbing girls who walked by and he grabbed Tracy, who yelled at Punk that she could take care of herself. Punk said that pissed him off as he had sisters but promised Tracy he wouldnt touch him. They stared at Punk, who was alone as Daniels was in the bathroom, and when he came out, Punk headbutted the guy off of his stool and there was almost a brawl but they left, with the point of all this being if something stupid happens to one of them, it will then happen to the other one.
They talk about stories from FIP for a few minutes. Punk said that he is a feminist of sorts and despises strip clubs but in FIP, they wrestle in the back of the strip club. Well, Punk is there outback as their was a guy who sold BBQ, which was really good, and he would talk to them. Punk said strippers hated him as he would tell them he wasnt giving them money and to leave him alone. Anyway, Punk and Homicide were brawling as part of the show and when the strippers realized that, they started to grind up next to each other as Punk was pissed that they were taking away from them and he called them “whores,” which pissed them off and the promoter told Punk he had to apologize and the girls were outside in their cars smoking pot expecting an apology.
Punk tells a story of how he pranked Gabe a few nights before the RoH Final Battle show when he did a Homicide impersonation over the phone and told him that he got the belt put on him in Puerto Rico and are giving him a push and thus had to cancel his appearance on the show. He said that he was pouring it on Gabe, who he could tell was having an anxiety attack on the other end of the phone. Then, he told Gabe, in the Homicide voice that it was a prank orchestrated by Punk, with Gabe screaming like a woman. Joe says that Gabe throws all sorts of fits backstage during the shows.
Joe tells a story of how he and Punk were going to crash Sharon Osborne’s charity auction but a friend called and said no one was there so they decided to call around and see where to go and finally got a call from his cousin, who worked at Club Ibiza, who told them to come down quickly. Joe said he was dressed up and Punk was dressed like he usually does. They pull up and there are girls lined up around the block and they walk up to Joe’s cousin and they get in and see buffets with lobster and steak and all hot chicks, prompting Punk to say that he thought all clubs were like this because he had not been to one before and they realize that it was the Spearmint Rhino Christmas Party, which is a large chain of strip clubs. There are all sugar daddy’s walking around with a chick on each arm but the girls were all looking at them. They are having a great time with the chicks. Punk tells the story of how Chuck Liddell was there and how he was trying to get his attention so Liddell thought it was Joe and would go after him as a result. It didnt work then as Joe gets out of the bathroom, these strippers pull him on the chair as two of the clubs had a “Strip Off” as Joe got dances from ten strippers by each club. After that ends, Joe walks into the VIP club with Punk singing “Rappers Delight” with a conga line of strippers behind him on stage. After that, they had the award portion of the show and that was when they left.
They close by saying part II is coming and that they have plenty more stories.
Final Thoughts: An excellent shoot interview. The first hour or so discusses their trilogy in-depth so if you have not seen those matches yet, it might not interest you at all. I will say that each guy shows a tremendous amount of insight into those matches and if you have seen them, their discussions and stories are incredible and a must-see.
The rest of the shoot is filled with hilarious stories from both guys. Punk is a great story teller, as most of you would probably expect. Some of them might not be of interest to you though if you did not follow RoH during the beginning but I assure you that they are all worth listening too.
I definitely recommend this shoot, which can be purchased along with the trilogy for $19.99 on the company website, a very good deal by the way. Even at almost three hours long, the interview breezes along.
Here is the link to purchase the interview
Discuss all of the action from today’s games in this thread.
Tipoff begins at 12:15 between #6 seed Ohio St. and #11 seed Dayton from the South Region
Did you hear the one about the skunk?
How many feet in a yard?
Depends how many people are standing in it.
How much dirt is in a whole 3.4 feet wide by 3.8 feet deep?
Daisy me rollin’ dey hatin…
(the real joke is in seeing how many people correct the grammar on the “whole” thing but don’t read this part down here explaining I did it on purpose)
WWE Network Offering a Second Free Week For Those Who Cancelled the Network
You have to re-order by Saturday to get this deal.
AJ Styles Update
Although nothing can be confirmed until it is announced by both sides, as they want to keep it a secret, it is largely believed that AJ Styles as signed a one-year deal with New Japan Pro Wrestling. It is expected that they announce the signing in conjunction with the “Invasion Attack” show.
Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter
Main Reason For Carlos Colon Being Inducted to the WWE Hall of Fame?
The main reason as to why Colon is being inducted this year as it is tied into Colon selling his WWC tape collection to the WWE, for the network. With the network expanding into global markets within the next year, the WWE wants some Spanish-language programming.
Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter
The live streaming schedule for today:
9:00 AM ET – RAW Flashback – 6/21/93 – The Kid vs. Razor Ramon; Marty Jannetty vs. Doink 2 out of 3 Falls Match
10:00 AM ET – RAW Flashback – 6/28/93 – Kamala vs. Shawn Michaels
11:00 AM ET – Legends of Wrestling – 10/31/08 – Most important moments
12:00 PM ET – Old School – 10/21/84 – Maple Leaf Gardens – Andre the Giant vs. Kamala (Cage Match)
1:00 PM ET – Wrestlemania XXVII – 4/2/11 – Includes The Undertaker vs. Triple H; John Cena vs. The Miz
5:00 PM ET – Beyond the Ring – NWO The Revolution
6:00 PM ET – Best of RAW – 11/28/99 – Test/Stephanie wedding episode
8:00 PM ET – Main Event Replay – 3/19/14 – Goldust/Cody Rhodes vs. The Real Americans; The Undertaker speaks
9:00 PM ET – NXT – New episode
10:00 PM ET – Superstars – New episode
11:00 PM ET – Main Event Replay – 3/19/14
This thread is open 24/7 for your Network rants and praises.
Who do you see being her foil or extracting some sort if revenge on her. Once upon a time possibly AJ, but that was maybe a year ago and pre-dating CM Punk. I don't exactly see Brie attacking her to any sort of reaction other than "ho hum."
The Kevin Kelly Show is available on iTunes and Stitcher by searching for Place to Be Podcast and can be downloaded and listened to below. You can find the complete archive of Kevin Kelly at Place to Be Nation here which includes the following past episodes: Episode 4 – Featuring Mike Bennett
Episode 3 – Featuring Hanson
Episode 2 – Featuring AJ Styles
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October 26, 1998
America West Arena, Phoenix, Arizona
Mike Tenay, Tony Schiavone, Larry Zbyszko, Bobby Heenan
Havoc is over and not a lot has changed. Hogan beat Warrior in one
of the worst matches of all time, Goldberg kept the World Title in a
good match over Diamond Dallas Page, Rick Steiner is still an idiot
(though he won the Tag Team Titles in one of the only changes) and
Nash walked away instead of beating Hall. We’re four weeks away from
World War 3 which will set up Starrcade. Let’s get to it.
open with stills of Bret vs. Sting from last night.
talks about the overrun from last night, saying about 10-20% of the
houses didn’t see the end of Hogan vs. Warrior or the title match.
WCW has held meetings all day and came up with two options. One
would be giving away the replay for free. Quote: “No. A lot of
fans bought the show and saw all eleven matches. We don’t want to
give the whole thing away for free.” Nice to see them just say “we
want your money instead of making it right.”
tonight at 9pm we’re going to see the World Title match in full.
Tony insists this isn’t a ratings ploy and proves it by saying the
match will start at 9pm rather than the end of the show. Why not
have a meeting to find out who decided Tony should say this on air
and have them listen to how stupid it sounded? Larry says sometimes
technology is out of control and just wait until the KY2 bug hits.
Wright vs. Stevie Ray
has dubbed himself the enforcer of the NWO. He runs over Kaos to
start and yells at the camera before kicking Kenny in the face.
Stevie misses an elbow drop as Tony drones on about the technical
issues. Kaos hits a springboard shoulder block for two but here’s
Buff to throw Stevie the Slap Jack. Kaos is knocked out and the Slap
Jack is enough for the pin.
Steiner comes in for the save as Tony says Rick single handed won the
titles. “It’s one of those things you only see when you watch a
WCW pay per view.” I wouldn’t be bragging about what you get when
you watch a show at this point Tony. Rick grabs the mic and says he
has to pick a partner, so if Kenny is interested in some revenge, he
can be a partner if he wants. Kaos says his partner is out with an
injury and it would be an honor to defend the titles with Rick. This
was always a bizarre choice to me as Kaos just lost a match and had
no history at all, so let’s make him a champion. Even the replay
shows him getting pinned.
vs. Prince Iaukea
is with Kanyon as Tony talks about the World Title match replay for
about the 6th time so far. However, even though it was
cut as well, we’re not going to see the end of Hogan vs. Warrior
because “it was too disgusting to show on television.” He’s
talking about Hogan failing to light Warrior on fire (the second time
he couldn’t get it to work if you’re counting), which happened after
the match. These jokes are writing themselves tonight.
does his schtick before the match and jumps Iaukea when he doesn’t
get the response he wants. Tony says they can’t show you the ending
to the Hogan match and Tenay adds that it’s not up to TNT standards.
Kanyon gets two off a rollup and puts on a chinlock until Iaukea
sends him to the floor. The Prince goes up top and dives at Kanyon,
despite him standing four feet from where Prince aimed. Prince
backdrops out of a piledriver on the steps to get the announcers
talking about the match for the first time. Back in and a
springboard flip attack gets two on Kanyon but he grabs the Flatliner
for the pin.
D+. This was better than I was
expecting but at the end of the day, Prince Iaukea isn’t going to win
a match on Nitro at this point. The flip dive did look cool but
there are a ton of guys on this roster that can do the exact same
thing. It’s always nice to see Kanyon get a win as well.
Nitro Girls are at the announcers’ desk.
calls the Horsemen to the ring. There’s no Mongo in sight and Flair
says he was a casualty in Vegas but will be back by the end of the
night. That’s an odd statement. Gene finds it interesting that
Bischoff isn’t trying to keep the Horsemen off TV but here’s Bischoff
in person. He says he’ll admit if he’s wrong, and he underestimated
how much Flair means to all of these people. The fans clearly want
to see him wrestle and that’s what Flair will be doing tonight.
Flair says line them up and he’ll be ready in ten minutes.
Party winner from Hampton, Virginia.
announcers talk about some of the other big matches last night and
show us stills of Nash vs. Hall.
Wright vs. Barry Horowitz
takes him down with ease to start but charges into an elbow in the
corner. A jumping kick to the face puts Barry down and Alex goes up,
only to jump into a boot. Barry
gets dropkicked off the top and a great looking neckbreaker gives
Wright the win.
look at stills from Hogan vs. Warrior. Of course this is ok to talk
about but Heaven forbid we show it.
vs. Sick Boy
Boy actually drops Wrath with a spinwheel kick but Wrath chops him
back into the corner. Wrath puts on a chinlock before throwing Sick
Boy out to the floor. A slingshot shoulder block gets two on Sick
Boy but he comes back with a suplex into a swinging neckbreaker.
Wrath completely no sells it to complete the squash.
#2 begins so here’s Goldberg vs. Page. I don’t feel like watching
this match twice in four days so this is copied and pasted from the
Halloween Havoc review.
World Title: Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page
charges right at him a few times and is easily shoved away. An
armdrag frustrates Goldberg and they lock up before falling to the
floor without breaking it up. Back in and Page tries a legsweep but
Goldberg does a standing backflip to avoid it. Men his size should
not be able to do that. A bad looking cross armbreaker has Page in
trouble and Goldberg shoves him out of the ring to block the Diamond
in and Page takes him down into a hammerlock but a hard shoulder
block puts him on the floor. Page is able to snap Goldberg’s throat
across the top rope and he follows up with a swinging neckbreaker. A
Russian legsweep gets two and we hit a front facelock. Goldberg
knees his way out of it and hits a spinning neckbreaker to put Page
down. A hard hiptoss puts Page down and a side slam gets two for the
champion. Back to the cross armbreaker but Page makes the rope.
superkick sends Page flying but he sidesteps the spear, sending
Goldberg hard into the post. Page gets two off a flying clothesline
and the running DDT puts the champion down as well. He calls for the
Diamond Cutter but Goldberg nails him with the spear. It injures his
arm though and Goldberg can’t get the Jackhammer. Page slips behind
him and grabs the Diamond Cutter but both guys are down. The fans
are suddenly WAY into this as Page gets a very close two. Page tries
a suplex of his own but Goldberg counters into the Jackhammer to
retain the title.
It’s not a masterpiece but it’s definitely Goldberg’s best match
ever. The fans were buying into Page as a threat at the end of the
match and that’s more than can be said about the vast majority of
Goldberg’s opponents. To put it simply, this was a good wrestling
match. You can’t often say that about a WCW main event but that’s
what you had here.
helps Page up post match and poses to end the show.
announcers praise the match.
goes to Kevin Nash’s huge locker room to ask him about leaving Hall
laying last night and walking out on the match. Hall himself comes
in and Nash says it wasn’t about winning and losing. He’ll win when
Hall is his friend again. The audio keeps cutting in and out. Hall
says something I can’t make out but they shake hands, only to have
Giant sneak in (unless there’s another door to that room, Giant was
somehow hiding in there
and Nash never saw him) and help Hall throw Nash through a wall in a
the NWO with Hogan looking thrilled. Bischoff talks about how great
his life is and presents Horace his shirt as the newest member of the
team. Hollywood throws in the weightlifting belt and it’s a big
celebration. Somehow this
takes almost six minutes.
Guerrero vs. Saturn
out process to start until Eddie takes him down by the arm. Saturn
comes back with an armdrag but Eddie complains of a hair pull. The
distraction lets Eddie take him down and stomp away at Saturn’s knee.
A backbreaker gets two for Eddie but he gets caught in a sitout
wheelbarrow slam for two by Saturn. Eddie’s tornado DDT is countered
into a northern lights suplex for two more but Eddie escapes a
vertical suplex into a rollup for yet another near fall. Saturn
comes back with a t-bone suplex and a brainbuster but the LWO runs in
for the DQ.
C+. The match was entertaining
as expected and the ending actually does something with the LWO for a
change. Until now they’ve all just been wearing the same shirt
without actually accomplishing anything. I’d like to see more of
this pairing and a finish but this advanced something.
LWO, including a new unnamed member, lay out Saturn so Eddie can hit
a frog splash.
Bagwell is here to talk about how bad her son has been lately. Gene
goes through the horrible things Buff have done lately and the
Bagwell Family is tired of it. She loves Marcus but is tired of
Buff. This was received about as well as you would expect.
Team Titles: Kenny Kaos/Rick Steiner vs. Giant/Stevie Ray
and Kaos are defending. Kaos goes after Stevie to start but Giant
adds in a kick from the apron. A superkick drops Kenny and the NWO
takes over. Off to Giant for a bearhug but Kenny gets over to the
corner and makes the tag to Rick. Giant splashes Rick in the corner
and chokes with a boot but charges into a boot from Rick. A top rope
shoulder gets two on Giant but he launches Rick to the floor on a
kickout. Stevie gets the tag and Kaos distracts Giant long enough
for Rick to bulldog Ray for the pin to retain.
D. At the end of the day, Kaos
just doesn’t fit in here. It’s like they drew a name out of a bowl
and made him a Tag Team Champion. The match wasn’t any good either
as it was Kaos being treated like the jobber that he was and Rick
hitting a quick move to keep the titles.
Bischoff has replaced Tenay on commentary and promises the best of
Ric Flair tonight. He has a video package of Hogan beating up Flair
from Bash at the Beach 1994 for the title. Tony praises Hogan and
calls Flair a coward but is embarrassed by what he said. Bischoff
says it’s proof that Flair will always play second fiddle to Hogan.
Title: Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera
is defending. Neither guy can get control off a wristlock but Juvy
fires off elbows to the head and sends Kidman into the buckle. Juvy
goes up top and shoves Kidman down before getting two off a missile
dropkick. A brainbuster gets two more for the challenger and we hit
the chinlock. Kidman fights
up but gets caught in a Rocker Dropper for two. Juvy’s headscissors
is countered into a wheelbarrow slam for two more.
tries a belly to back suplex but gets countered into a sitout
bulldog, followed by a cross body for two. Juvy goes up but gets
dropkicked out of the air, setting up the Shooting Star. Guerrera is
able to get to his feet and crotch Kidman, followed by a top rope
hurricanrana for a VERY close two. Kidman counters a powerbomb into
the sitout powerbomb and the Shooting Star retains the title.
B-. This started a bit slow but
the ending sequence was great. Juvy looked great in the ring and
Kidman was in over his head for most of the match. The counter to
the powerbomb looked good and the Shooting Star was even better.
Kidman is nailing the division right now and having solid match after
for Sting and Randy Savage tapes.
are Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell to brag about their physiques.
Bagwell says this is for the women: your job is to cook and clean and
take care of your man. Scott wants JJ Dillon out here right now
because he wants a match with Rick tonight. JJ comes to the ring and
Scott accuses him of thinking Rick is the better brother.
says he has no favorite but Scott wants to know why the new referee
came in to help Rick win because he thinks JJ had something to do
with it. JJ says buy the replay to see what happened. Scott stays
on it and JJ says he didn’t send the referee but would have if he had
the chance. Steiner kicks him in the gut and puts him in the
Recliner until security
makes a save.
the Warrior because this hasn’t gone on long enough. Hogan had the
chance to face a challenge last night but failed again. Last night
will haunt Hogan forever (understatement of the year) because there’s
a difference between beating someone up and defeating them. Warrior
beat Hogan up last night and the bull pinfall doesn’t change it.
Warrior calls himself a gatekeeper and says the time is near on the
same Warrior channel.
comes out and Warrior is ready to go but Horace stops his uncle from
getting in. Horace gets beaten up and sent to the floor. Giant
comes in and gets the same so Hogan gets in. Warrior ducks a big
boot and hits a shoulder to the ribs. Bischoff
is knocked off the apron and the NWO runs.
Luger/Konnan vs. Scott Steiner/Scott Hall
a brawl to start as the Wolfpack is out for revenge for Nash. Konnan
and Steiner fight to the floor with Konnan getting caught in the
Recliner outside. Steiner adds a chair to the ribs as Luger and Hall
fight in the aisle. I don’t think a bell ever rang so this isn’t
even a match. Steiner beats on Konnan in the ring but Konnan comes
back with a clothesline.
four guys go to the floor and Konnan gets laid out again. Luger gets
double teamed in the ring and a chair is brought in. Konnan comes in
for the save as there’s no referee in sight. Luger nails Hall with
the chair and Racks him but Steiner breaks it up and we take a break.
Not a match but a fun segment.
Title: Diamond Dallas Page vs. Bret Hart
is defending and gets a quick two after countering a slam. They
trade arm work until Page gets two off a rollup of his own. A
neckbreaker gets two more for Page but Bret knees him in the ribs.
Bret hammers away at the ribs and chokes on the ropes as the
announcers talk about Sting’s injuries last night. We hit the
chinlock on Page for a good while but he fights up with a jawbreaker
gets crotched on the top and Bret brings him down with a gorgeous
superplex. Hart misses a charge into the buckle to give Page two but
Bret scores with the legsweep and middle rope elbow. Page is up at
two and Bret is getting frustrated. Another jawbreaker has Bret in
trouble and Page rams him into the buckle. Bret counters with a low
blow that takes out both Page and the referee. The champ pulls out a
foreign object but Page ducks a big swing and hits the Diamond Cutter
for the pin and the title.
C-. This really didn’t do it
for me but it wasn’t horrible. It felt like they just wanted to get
the match over with but had to fill time. It’s nice to see Page get
a clean(ish) pin for a title and to take it off Bret who just didn’t
care at this point. The match didn’t work though as it just jumped
into the Bret control with very little beforehand.
goes off with chair shots post match and works over his knee before
putting on the Sharpshooter. Page’s screams really make it that much
better. Bret works the knee over with the chair even more until
Goldberg makes the save to end the show.
Rating: D+. You can see things
getting in trouble from here as the earlier matches were nothing to
see and the rest of the show felt like they were trying to figure out
what to do next. There was
some fallout from Halloween Havoc, but at the same time it was like
they had no idea where they wanted to go. That’s a problem going
into a big battle royal show as there’s no story to a match like
that. The show had good points but it didn’t work for the most part.
The SmarK RAW Rant – 11.28.99 OH MY GOD the Wedding Episode. This one blew my mind when I first saw it in 99, because they had been building to the wedding for so long and you knew something wacky was going to happen, but the “Wrestling Wedding” was not yet enough of a trope that you could predict the beats of what exactly would go down. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would have predicted how huge this ended up being for THIS BUSINESS, and that this angle would end up completely altering the dynamic of the entire company years later, but here we are today. Live from Los Angeles, CA Your hosts are Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler Big Show & Kane v. Big Bossman & Viscera So I suppose you could POSSIBLY book a worse tag match by putting Mideon in there somewhere, but they’re sure giving it the old college try here. Kane quickly hits a flying clothesline on Viscera while Bossman beats on Show outside with the nightstick, but X-Pac runs in behind the ref’s back and hits an X-Factor on Kane. Vis gets the pin at 1:30 off that. X-Pac beats up Tori afterwards as well, because he’s all about the class. DUD Meanwhile, we take a look back at the Test-Stephanie romance. Hearing that Stephanie was suffering from amnesia due to “post concussion syndrome” makes me wonder if Dolph Ziggler originally went around introducing himself to everyone because he couldn’t remember meeting them? D-Generation X is out to warn Vince McMahon that he can’t come within 50 feet of any of the DX guys, lest legal troubles result. Also, he’s got some bad news: No wedding tonight. This brings Vince out, who would bulldoze their limo with his rent-a-car all over again to protect his family. And HHH’s blood is gonna be on his hands at the PPV. So tonight, it’s Test v. HHH and the other DX members against The Rock N Sock Connection and a mystery partner. Matt Hardy v. Edge Man, this one sure took on greater significance years later. Matt gets a tornado DDT and yodeling legdrop for two, but Edge comes back with a german suplex for two. They head up and Matt gets a superplex for two, but he goes up again and Edge dropkicks him into the railings for a sick bump. Back in, Matt and Edge both hit Jeff and Christian with dives and it’s breaking loose in Tulsa! Edge spears Matt for the pin at 3:10 while the camera is replaying the other highspot. Total stunt show. * Meanwhile, Steph has her bachelorette party with Moolah and the ladies. Chyna is out to challenge Chris Jericho to an IC title match TONIGHT, but Jericho is suffering from post-concussion syndrome, much like Stephanie, due to a brutal beating delivered by Chyna on Smackdown. Miss Kitty sprays him with a fire extinguisher to bring the LOLZ. The Godfather v. Steve Blackman Godfather gets a legdrop for two, but Blackman puts him down with a kick for the pin at 1:00. This might seem quick, but only if you haven’t read Hardcore Holly’s book and thus don’t understand how fucking badass dangerous that Blackman really is. DUD Meanwhile, the Dudley Boyz play cards with the APA. It doesn’t go well. Meanwhile, the bachelorette trainwreck continues. Meanwhile, Al Snow makes his pitch to be Mankind’s partner tonight, but Mick feels like Rock still hates Snow’s guts. Well, to be fair, really no one likes Al Snow. Too Cool v. The Hollies Too Cool double-teams Crash and Scotty hits the Worm (opposite the hard camera) and they finish with the Midnight Express’s Veg-O-Matic at 1:00. DUD Well that was brisk. Meanwhile, it’s time for the stripper at the party. Test v. HHH The referee is wearing a Vince mask to build suspense. Test pounds away in the corner and gets a powerslam for two, but HHH USES THE KNEE to take over and drops a knee. They slug it out and HHH gets the Main Event Sleeper, but “Vince” slaps him around to wake him up. HHH DDTs him and goes low, however, and stomps away in the corner, but Test makes the thrilling comeback. Powerbomb and backdrop suplex set up the flying elbow, but HHH bails to escape it. They fight on the floor and HHH brings a chair into the ring, but “Vince” keeps that from happening. HHH uses the knee again, but the mystery ref won’t count. This prompts HHH to finally attack him, but Shane runs out and lays him out with the chair, allowing Test to finish with the flying elbow at 8:13. We don’t know who the mystery ref was, but as JR notes, it can’t legally have been Vince. Not exactly a great showcase of Test, but then HHH basically took all the offense anyway. * Meanwhile, the stripper gives Stephanie one last shot of something REALLY strong. Barbara “BB” Bush is out to challenge Ivory to an evening gown match, because she’s so MAD, despite her face being frozen in a state of perpetual boredom. Ivory comes out and they rip each others’ shirts off in the least sexy way possible while BB maintains her plastic facial expression. Meanwhile, Patterson & Brisco provide Vince’s alibi for REFEREE-GATE. Val Venis v. Kurt Angle Val misses a blind charge and Angle clotheslines him down and then to the floor, where they have a brief brawl. Back in, Angle gets a sleeper, but Val turns it into a powerbomb for two. Russian legsweep gets two. Spinebuster and he goes up to finish, but the Bulldog runs out and crotches him, allowing Angle to get a superplex for two. Val keeps fighting, but Bulldog hits him with a chair and the Angle Slam finishes at 3:20. Man, that Val-bulldog feud was quite the barnburner. ½* Meanwhile, Al Snow really hates the Rock, but is that the Rock standing behind him? Yeah, it is. So Rock does a funny monologue pretending to not see Snow standing there while Snow makes faces at him. Mick’s bemused acceptance of the whole thing is great, as he’s just like “Well, sounds like you’re out, but we’re still on for Disneyland tomorrow, right?” The Rock, Mankind & Kane v. The New Age Outlaws & X-Pac Mick chases Road Dogg to the floor, but walks into an X-Pac spinkick and gets beat on back in the ring. Gunn prevents a tag to the Rock and X-Pac throws kicks for two. Gunn with a corner splash to set up the Broncobuster, but Mick counters with the Mandible Sock. Hot tag Rock, and it’s Rock Bottom for Billy, but Al Snow runs in and gets the babyfaces disqualified at 4:30. No wonder Rock hates him. *1/2 Rock kicks his ass and gives the People’s Elbow for his troubles. Meanwhile, the APA and Dudleyz might be enemies at poker, but at least they all agree that The Public Enemy sucks. OUCH. Sadly, their peaceful co-existence comes to an end when Bubba shows six aces and triggers a brawl. Oh man, if he had thrown down ACES AND EIGHTS I would have literally shit my pants. And with all that pesky wrestling out of the way, time for the REAL main event! Test & Stephanie McMahon are out for their long-awaited wedding, complete with bizarre “worlds colliding” craziness with Steph’s real-life friends as bridesmaids and Test having the Hardy Boyz and Edge & Christian as his guys. And the great thing is that they play it all so straight, with the inspirational soul singers and loving families, and then the priest is like “If anyone has reason to object…” and of course, all hell breaks loose in the most awesome way. It’s all the more awesome because the last major wrestling wedding up to then was Liz & Savage, which was played totally straight, so there was no expectation from the fans that there would be the craziest twist ever. And what a twist! Because that shot Stephanie did at the party actually put her out cold, allowing HHH to kidnap her and take her to a Vegas drive-through chapel. HHH is really in his glory here (“40 bucks? That’s kind of steep. And we’re kind of in a hurry here.”) And this, finally, makes HHH into the biggest heel and star in the business with one line, and this is it: “I know you can only have one question on your mind…DAD…and that is how many times did we consummate the marriage?” And since there’s absolutely nowhere to go from there but down, the show ends on that cliffhanger. No question, one of the greatest angles in the history of wrestling. If only Test didn’t suck so badly that he couldn’t keep up his end of it. The Pulse Vince Russo wishes he could have come up with that one. The rest of the show was still the weird growing pains where they were slowly trying to get crowds re-accustomed to actual wrestling again, but my god that closing angle was something special.