A Billion Stars


So… you going to rate something seven stars just to up the ante now?

​I dunno, Dave was the only one to give Okada v. Omega six stars. I haven’t seen the match, but it couldn’t have been any more than *****1/2, maybe *****3/4 tops.

And to answer another e-mail question, I don’t subscribe to New Japan World any more and don’t really have four and a half hours to dedicate to watching the show, so I won’t be doing a review, sorry. ​

  • FlipNite

    I went 4.75… the first 15 minutes felt really slow to me. It did play a role later which is why I can see 5. And believe me, the last 15 minutes are INCREDIBLE (Omega was awesome)… but I don’t know how you invent the SIXTH STAR.

    • Kouvre

      I think Meltzer rated some random joshi match in the 80s as ******, although I don’t know how serious he was about it.

      • Supermark25

        He also said a live Flair – Steamboat match in 89 was 6 stars.

    • aboynamedart

      I think everything after the super dragon suplex leads to the sixth star. This match felt like an actual Main Event Title Fight. And it went at a hell of a pace at that. Omega was absolutely elevated in the losing effort, and Okada looked like he was The Man once and for all. I’m not arguing with that extra star this time.

  • TomaxAndXamot

    “but I don’t know how you invent the SIXTH STAR.”

    The same way any other rating system was invented? Someone made shit up.

  • Rick Poehling

    I liked the dude in the discussion last night who gave it half a planet out of seven.

  • justicegris

    This is a sad post…we have witnessed someone announcing the death of their passion 🙁

    • Supermark25

      Scott’s has been mostly dead for years. It’s all about add revenue now.

      • hulksmash

        Yet here we all are, still commenting.

        • ScottyH

          yes

        • Supermark25

          Some more than others, but your not wrong. I’m rarely on here anymore.

    • PhilStubington

      That boat sailed along time ago.

    • Adam The Reindeer

      It’s almost like a man with a wife and kid has less free time than a single guy.

      • justicegris

        I don’t think your observation and mine are mutually exclusive.

  • It only earns a seventh star if it happens in Elkhart, and it will probably be sponsored by a local furnace and air conditioning installer.

    • Eh, there haven’t been that many stars seen in Elkhart since Nineteen-dickety two.

  • Macklin Man Without Password

    Four and a half hours? TRY 6!

    • ezuvgu

      And those 6 hours still seemed to go by faster than a 4 hour WWE PPV or a 3 hour episode of Raw.

  • Jeremy Rinehart

    Meltzer have a match six stars????

  • J. Frizz

    This shit about people making star ratings the be-all, end-all needs to stop.

    • Roman Reigns Winky Face

      I tried saying this earlier today and was accused of trying to suppress wrestling opinions.

    • hulksmash

      There’s a lot of shit that goes on here that is taken way too seriously.

  • The G*d D*mn John Petrie

    Like 6 stars is any less dubious than, say, -***… if you can quantify the difference between a -** and a -*** match, then you can justify a sixth star.

    • Phrederic

      People saying that a five star match is twice as good as a two and a half star match are missing the point.

      Five stars means the match could not be better. It’s a “this did everything right.”

      Six stars is just stupid.

      • PhilStubington

        Exactly, by defintion, you can’t have more than *****, since a five star match is perfect. I suppose could you say that the match is so good in some way that it redefined what you thought of as perfect. In which case you should change some of your previous ***** matches to **** 3/4.

        Or on second thoughts you could just go “fuck it, its Dave rating a Japanese match, who cares” and move on!

        • Phrederic

          Your latter point is incredibly relevant and basically the concluding statement.

          But a 5 star match in 1982 won’t have the workrate of a 92 match or a 2002.

          Wrestlers overall have gotten faster and more athletic. Wrestling has changed. So yes, maybe you can go beyond what previously you’d consider to be a five-star match. But it’s still five-stars.

          Birth of a Nation was the greatest movie of all time until Citizen Kane was, and that was the greatest movie until The Godfather.

          The “greatest” changes as art advances. But that previous legend was still the greatest…in there time.

          Picasso didn’t knock Michelangelo off the list. He made the list longer.

          • Indeed you can’t compare matches from different generations because it’s so different. Like comparing Steamboat/Savage from WM3 versus AJ/Joe/Daniels, it’s two different styles that really can’t be compared. It’s like comparing current music to classic rock, or classic shows of the 50s/60s to current shows. Every generation is going to change and evolve, so rating them head to head is impossible.

          • Phrederic

            So maybe you can say “hey, the standard for a five star match has changed post-Omega/Okada.”

            But six stars is just asinine.

        • In order to not sound reactionnary, you should have made that point a long time ago. Originally, the star rating system only went up to four stars. Then, there was a match (a Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk match, I believe) which was so good that an extra, fifth star was added to reflect how good the match was (by Jim Cornette, I believe).

          I may be wrong about the specifics, but I’m right about the story.

          I somewhat agree with your point, but I think that reviewing every five-star match in order to downgrade it is way more tedious than adding the sixth star.

          I don’t know how Dave Meltzer feels about past ratings, but Roger Ebert stated many times over that he never went back on his star ratings.

        • Topher0820

          the last point is just as illogical as going backwards to rerate your past ratings every year like you’re suggesting.

  • Guaranteed Scott has multiple emails waiting in his inbox about which past matches deserved 6 stars.

  • Rick Poehling

    New possible rating system: nude scenes.

    On one end of the scale, Kathy Bates from Sideways = DUD, while Alexandra Daddario from True Detective = *****.

    “When it comes to Omega/Okada, I give it 4 and 1/4 Anne Hathaways from Love and Other Drugs.”

    • brocore

      Kathy Bates wasn’t in Sideways. You’re thinking of About Schmidt. Completely different Alexander Payne movie.

      • Rick Poehling

        You’re right. I must have blocked the memory out more thoroughly than I thought. Sideways = Paul Giamatti & Thomas Hayden Church, About Schmidt = Jack Nicholson.

    • Peter

      Technically, you give Omega/Okada a rating of “Anne Hathaway from Love and other drugs”. 😉

      • Rick Poehling

        I didn’t think it was a full Alexandria. I had some problems with the match.

  • Hbkslush

    But can it live up to the incredible standard set by the incomperible Joe Gomez?

    • Doctor Funkopolis

      No, obviously.

  • “How do you come up with a 6th star in a 5 star system?”
    “How? Because fuck you, that’s how.”

    • Bones1916

      Well, in fairness it was a **** system until they saw a match that was better than all the other **** matches, though I don’t think ****** is sticking, match we’ll get ****** in the next 20 years

  • Vince

    1) Are we sure Meltzer didn’t just make a typo?

    2) Wait three weeks and then use the 4 hours of Royal Rumble pre-show to watch NJPW instead. Alternately, go about your life as normal.

  • hulksmash

    I never understood the point of star ratings. I either liked it or I didn’t.

    • wnyxmcneal

      How much did you like it?

      • ScottyH

        Hulk no get “how much”? LIKE!

        • PhilStubington

          Smashin’ time.

    • jabroniville

      Movie reviewers deal with that all the time. Most of them don’t WANT to rate movies on a scale, but the public more or less demands “no, HOW MUCH did you like/hate it?”

      • LJFCAT

        Less time you have to devote to movies/matches/whatever, more discerning you need to be, that’s the whole point of a review – if I can only see one movie this weekend and five new ones came out, if the reviewer tells me s/he liked three and didn’t like two, well, that isn’t that much help.

        Of course, that’s where the body of the review comes in, but… some people just want to see the things they like get scored highly, it’s validating, I guess (and I do mean guess), and creates a direct way of comparing things. It can make interesting fodder for discussion, I suppose.

        People seem to really like it and it’s not hurting anyone, so whatever.

      • Stephen

        I get movie reviews, particularly of new releases, because they generally are influencing consumer decisions a lot of the time. It’s different for wrestling, where for the most part the ratings influence something more people have already purchased.

        (Not true with PWG or likely even this match, since its biggest audience is going to be the AXS airing in a week)

  • PhilStubington

    The funny thing is that in the live watch people were marking it down quite heavily for the first 30 minutes and saying thet they really had to pull something out of the hat for the run in. Obviously they did. Still, given that, I’m not sure it can even be a ***** match, let alone the best match of all time.

    I assumed the extra snowflake was just a rib by Big Dave on all the trolls who say he adds a * if its a main event at the Tokyo Dome.

    • Yeah, I’m happily holding it at ****1/2… a hard earned rating, but I can’t justify going the full monty.

      • Ioan Morris

        That was my initial rating, at the end of a long show, but rewatching last night it was an easy upgrade to 4.75 and might even be full monty after another watch. Lots of detail there I hadn’t fully noticed first time around.

      • Okie Asshole

        Me too it was good but not some work of genius. 4 3/4 imo.

  • Mister H

    ***** is a genuine MOTY contender. So it follows that ****** should be a genuine GOAT contender.

    His system, his rules, his opinion. I fail to see what there is to get all bent out of shape about.

    • Stephen

      Read Dave’s twitter. The poor guy is OVERWHELMED by idiots arguing star ratings.

  • Mike Fitzgerald

    To be honest Scott, you only need to watch the last four matches, which will take up about 2 hours and will enrich your life no end, because they’re all absolutely belting

    Those 4 matches are 100% worth 999 yen

  • Adam The Reindeer

    I give this post 10 asteroids out of 23

  • Supermark25

    Those saying six stars is stupid need to remember, it was originally a 4 star system until something was so good it needed a 5th star. The story has been told by Cornette many times.

    • juvydriver

      Plus, it’s wrestling. We need to relax a little bit.

  • Mister H

    Meltzer has also said this doesn’t mean it’s now a 6-star system. He doesn’t envisage giving out 6 stars more than once every 15-20 years.

    • Stephen

      Which is why I semi-jokingly asked him yesterday which of the Flair / Steamboat matches would merit six stars. He was humourously vague in his response.

  • itwastyped

    You’re taking it too seriously if a sixth star bothers you. Maybe a ***** is the perfect match, but maybe this match was on a different level completely that transcends any other perfect match he’s seen before. What’s he supposed to do? Go back and change all his reviews? Six stars is fine

  • Mike Mears

    I gave Punk/Cena at MITB 19 stars. I don’t see the problem.

    • Cbenson5

      I’m afraid that match got my worst rating ever… 7 thumbs up.

  • Bettis

    If scientists can remove a planet, Meltzer can add a star… although I’m way too defensive of Flair vs Steamboat at the Clash to say anything is better.

  • GREEN MIST BLINDS

    Wow I’m gonna have to rewatch I fell asleep during that match last night.

  • Mordecai Jones

    Then Atlantis/Villano III is 7 stars dammit and I’m gonna write it down. On a spreadsheet!!

  • NoLookPass

    Meanwhile, in a parallel universe…….MINUS SIX STARS

  • Bones1916

    It fucking deserved ******.

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